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Old 01-26-2024, 04:37 PM
 
2,765 posts, read 2,664,439 times
Reputation: 255

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No wonder Muslims are so misguided
All but Muslims are misguided.

Quote:
I am convinced more than ever that it was entirely the motivation of sibling rivalry that created Islam to counter Christianity. :smack
again the Phobia of sibling rivalry.

Islam is mentioned and prophecies in the Bible

Genesis 17:20 ESV

As for Ishmael, I have heard you;
behold, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly.
He shall father twelve princes,
and I will make him into a great nation.


Isaiah 21:13 NIV

A prophecy against Arabia:
You caravans of Dedanites,
who camp in the thickets of Arabia,



Paran is in Mecca

Habakkuk 3:3 ESV

God came from Teman,
and the Holy One from Mount Paran.
Selah His splendor covered the heavens,
and the earth was full of his praise.

for more knowledge please see
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/4401...d-in-the-bible
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Old 01-27-2024, 11:01 AM
 
Location: So Cal/AZ
994 posts, read 782,612 times
Reputation: 494
A great story of John Mark and Jesus

1. One Day Alone with God
177:1.1 (1920.5) As Jesus was about to take the lunch basket from John’s hand, the young man ventured to say: “But, Master, you may set the basket down while you turn aside to pray and go on without it. Besides, if I should go along to carry the lunch, you would be more free to worship, and I will surely be silent. I will ask no questions and will stay by the basket when you go apart by yourself to pray.”

177:1.2 (1920.6) While making this speech, the temerity of which astonished some of the near-by listeners, John had made bold to hold on to the basket. There they stood, both John and Jesus holding the basket. Presently the Master let go and, looking down on the lad, said: “Since with all your heart you crave to go with me, it shall not be denied you. We will go off by ourselves and have a good visit. You may ask me any question that arises in your heart, and we will comfort and console each other. You may start out carrying the lunch, and when you grow weary, I will help you. Follow on with me.”

177:1.3 (1921.1) Jesus did not return to the camp that evening until after sunset. The Master spent this last day of quiet on earth visiting with this truth-hungry youth and talking with his Paradise Father. This event has become known on high as “the day which a young man spent with God in the hills.” Forever this occasion exemplifies the willingness of the Creator to fellowship the creature. Even a youth, if the desire of the heart is really supreme, can command the attention and enjoy the loving companionship of the God of a universe, actually experience the unforgettable ecstasy of being alone with God in the hills, and for a whole day. And such was the unique experience of John Mark on this Wednesday in the hills of Judea.

177:1.4 (1921.2) Jesus visited much with John, talking freely about the affairs of this world and the next. John told Jesus how much he regretted that he had not been old enough to be one of the apostles and expressed his great appreciation that he had been permitted to follow on with them since their first preaching at the Jordan ford near Jericho, except for the trip to Phoenicia. Jesus warned the lad not to become discouraged by impending events and assured him he would live to become a mighty messenger of the kingdom.

177:1.5 (1921.3) John Mark was thrilled by the memory of this day with Jesus in the hills, but he never forgot the Master’s final admonition, spoken just as they were about to return to the Gethsemane camp, when he said: “Well, John, we have had a good visit, a real day of rest, but see to it that you tell no man the things which I told you.” And John Mark never did reveal anything that transpired on this day which he spent with Jesus in the hills.

177:1.6 (1921.4) Throughout the few remaining hours of Jesus’ earth life John Mark never permitted the Master for long to get out of his sight. Always was the lad in hiding near by; he slept only when Jesus slept.
https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book...esday-rest-day
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Old 01-27-2024, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,766 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32905
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyRoadg View Post
A great story of John Mark and Jesus

1. One Day Alone with God
177:1.1 (1920.5) As Jesus was about to take the lunch basket from John’s hand, the young man ventured to say: “But, Master, you may set the basket down while you turn aside to pray and go on without it. Besides, if I should go along to carry the lunch, you would be more free to worship, and I will surely be silent. I will ask no questions and will stay by the basket when you go apart by yourself to pray.”

177:1.2 (1920.6) While making this speech, the temerity of which astonished some of the near-by listeners, John had made bold to hold on to the basket. There they stood, both John and Jesus holding the basket. Presently the Master let go and, looking down on the lad, said: “Since with all your heart you crave to go with me, it shall not be denied you. We will go off by ourselves and have a good visit. You may ask me any question that arises in your heart, and we will comfort and console each other. You may start out carrying the lunch, and when you grow weary, I will help you. Follow on with me.”

177:1.3 (1921.1) Jesus did not return to the camp that evening until after sunset. The Master spent this last day of quiet on earth visiting with this truth-hungry youth and talking with his Paradise Father. This event has become known on high as “the day which a young man spent with God in the hills.” Forever this occasion exemplifies the willingness of the Creator to fellowship the creature. Even a youth, if the desire of the heart is really supreme, can command the attention and enjoy the loving companionship of the God of a universe, actually experience the unforgettable ecstasy of being alone with God in the hills, and for a whole day. And such was the unique experience of John Mark on this Wednesday in the hills of Judea.

177:1.4 (1921.2) Jesus visited much with John, talking freely about the affairs of this world and the next. John told Jesus how much he regretted that he had not been old enough to be one of the apostles and expressed his great appreciation that he had been permitted to follow on with them since their first preaching at the Jordan ford near Jericho, except for the trip to Phoenicia. Jesus warned the lad not to become discouraged by impending events and assured him he would live to become a mighty messenger of the kingdom.

177:1.5 (1921.3) John Mark was thrilled by the memory of this day with Jesus in the hills, but he never forgot the Master’s final admonition, spoken just as they were about to return to the Gethsemane camp, when he said: “Well, John, we have had a good visit, a real day of rest, but see to it that you tell no man the things which I told you.” And John Mark never did reveal anything that transpired on this day which he spent with Jesus in the hills.

177:1.6 (1921.4) Throughout the few remaining hours of Jesus’ earth life John Mark never permitted the Master for long to get out of his sight. Always was the lad in hiding near by; he slept only when Jesus slept.
https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book...esday-rest-day
Fiction can be very engaging.
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Old 01-30-2024, 11:38 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
All but Muslims are misguided.



again the Phobia of sibling rivalry.

Islam is mentioned and prophecies in the Bible

Genesis 17:20 ESV

As for Ishmael, I have heard you;
behold, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly.
He shall father twelve princes,
and I will make him into a great nation.


Isaiah 21:13 NIV

A prophecy against Arabia:
You caravans of Dedanites,
who camp in the thickets of Arabia,



Paran is in Mecca

Habakkuk 3:3 ESV

God came from Teman,
and the Holy One from Mount Paran.
Selah His splendor covered the heavens,
and the earth was full of his praise.

for more knowledge please see
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/4401...d-in-the-bible
Not even close. Islam wasn't even heard of and wouldn't be heard of when the Bible was written. The OT Scriptures quoted here were written 1000 + years earlier, and no--God did not give any foretelling of Islam.
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Old 01-30-2024, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,766 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32905
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Not even close. Islam wasn't even heard of and wouldn't be heard of when the Bible was written. The OT Scriptures quoted here were written 1000 + years earlier, and no--God did not give any foretelling of Islam.
And the Baptist church didn't come around until the 1600s, while Islam came about in 610 (give or take). So by your logic...
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Old 01-30-2024, 04:45 PM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
And the Baptist church didn't come around until the 1600s, while Islam came about in 610 (give or take). So by your logic...
I'm a Christian. Baptist is just one flavor of Christianity. Sort of like the argument of Sunni or Shiite. And my point stands. By him attempting to gain credibility for his upstart religion by suggesting that Christianity recognized it, or prophesied about it is an illegitimate claim.

So...well..your logic is lame on this one.
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Old 01-30-2024, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,766 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32905
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I'm a Christian. Baptist is just one flavor of Christianity. Sort of like the argument of Sunni or Shiite. And my point stands. By him attempting to gain credibility for his upstart religion by suggesting that Christianity recognized it, or prophesied about it is an illegitimate claim.

So...well..your logic is lame on this one.
No, you can just never admit that your postings are 'shortsighted' (to be polite about it). You don't mind putting down other religions, but you sure don't like it when people do the same to yours.
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Old 01-30-2024, 10:10 PM
 
2,765 posts, read 2,664,439 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Not even close. Islam wasn't even heard of and wouldn't be heard of when the Bible was written. The OT Scriptures quoted here were written 1000 + years earlier, and no--God did not give any foretelling of Islam.
Prophet Abraham brought her and her son Ishmael while she was suckling him, to a place near the Ka'ba under a tree on the spot of Zam-zam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Mecca, nor was there any water So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ishmael's mother followed him saying, "O Abraham! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?" She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her Then she asked him, "Has Allah ordered you to do so?" He said, "Yes." She said, "Then He will not neglect us," and returned while Abraham proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniya where they could not see him, he faced the Ka'ba, and raising both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayers: 'O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Your Sacred House (Kaba at Mecca) in order, O our Lord, that they may offer prayer perfectly. So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allah) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks.' (14.37) Ishmael's mother went on suckling Ishmael and drinking from the water (she had). When the water in the water-skin had all been used up, she became thirsty and her child also became thirsty. She started looking at him (i.e. Ishmael) tossing in agony; She left him, for she could not endure looking at him, and found that the mountain of Safa was the nearest mountain to her on that land. She stood on it and started looking at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody, but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from Safa and when she reached the valley, she tucked up her robe and ran in the valley like a person in distress and trouble, till she crossed the valley and reached the Marwa mountain where she stood and started looking, expecting to see somebody, but she could not see anybody. She repeated that (running between Safa and Marwa) seven times." The Prophet said, "This is the source of the tradition of the walking of people between them (i.e. Safa and Marwa). When she reached the Marwa (for the last time) she heard a voice and she asked herself to be quiet and listened attentively. She heard the voice again and said, 'O, (whoever you may be)! You have made me hear your voice; have you got something to help me?" And behold! She saw an angel at the place of Zam-zam, digging the earth with his heel (or his wing), till water flowed from that place. She started to make something like a basin around it, using her hand in this way, and started filling her water-skin with water with her hands, and the water was flowing out after she had scooped some of it." The Prophet added, "May Allah bestow Mercy on Ishmael's mother! Had she let the Zam-zam (flow without trying to control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her water-skin), Zam-zam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth." The Prophet further added, "Then she drank (water) and suckled her child. The angel said to her, 'Don't be afraid of being neglected, for this is the House of Allah which will be built by this boy and his father, and Allah never neglects His people.' The House (i.e. Kaba) at that time was on a high place resembling a hillock, and when torrents came, they flowed to its right and left. She lived in that way till some people from the tribe of Jurhum or a family from Jurhum passed by her and her child, as they (i.e. the Jurhum people) were coming through the way of Kada'. They landed in the lower part of Mecca where they saw a bird that had the habit of flying around water and not leaving it. They said, 'This bird must be flying around water, though we know that there is no water in this valley.' They sent one or two messengers who discovered the source of water, and returned to inform them of the water. So, they all came (towards the water)." The Prophet added, "Ishmael's mother was sitting near the water. They asked her, 'Do you allow us to stay with you?" She replied, 'Yes, but you will have no right to possess the water.' They agreed to that.


Genesis 21:17-21

17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her,
“What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid;
God has heard the boy crying as he lies there.
18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.”
19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water.
So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink.
20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer.
21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt.

Paran in the Bible is Mecca today


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIEnLDu0_jg
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Old 01-31-2024, 07:06 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No, you can just never admit that your postings are 'shortsighted' (to be polite about it). You don't mind putting down other religions, but you sure don't like it when people do the same to yours.
lol....right. As if you never "put down" a religion. Good grief.
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Old 01-31-2024, 07:13 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
Prophet Abraham brought her and her son Ishmael while she was suckling him, to a place near the Ka'ba under a tree on the spot of Zam-zam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Mecca, nor was there any water So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ishmael's mother followed him saying, "O Abraham! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?" She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her Then she asked him, "Has Allah ordered you to do so?" He said, "Yes." She said, "Then He will not neglect us," and returned while Abraham proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniya where they could not see him, he faced the Ka'ba, and raising both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayers: 'O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Your Sacred House (Kaba at Mecca) in order, O our Lord, that they may offer prayer perfectly. So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allah) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks.' (14.37) Ishmael's mother went on suckling Ishmael and drinking from the water (she had). When the water in the water-skin had all been used up, she became thirsty and her child also became thirsty. She started looking at him (i.e. Ishmael) tossing in agony; She left him, for she could not endure looking at him, and found that the mountain of Safa was the nearest mountain to her on that land. She stood on it and started looking at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody, but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from Safa and when she reached the valley, she tucked up her robe and ran in the valley like a person in distress and trouble, till she crossed the valley and reached the Marwa mountain where she stood and started looking, expecting to see somebody, but she could not see anybody. She repeated that (running between Safa and Marwa) seven times." The Prophet said, "This is the source of the tradition of the walking of people between them (i.e. Safa and Marwa). When she reached the Marwa (for the last time) she heard a voice and she asked herself to be quiet and listened attentively. She heard the voice again and said, 'O, (whoever you may be)! You have made me hear your voice; have you got something to help me?" And behold! She saw an angel at the place of Zam-zam, digging the earth with his heel (or his wing), till water flowed from that place. She started to make something like a basin around it, using her hand in this way, and started filling her water-skin with water with her hands, and the water was flowing out after she had scooped some of it." The Prophet added, "May Allah bestow Mercy on Ishmael's mother! Had she let the Zam-zam (flow without trying to control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her water-skin), Zam-zam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth." The Prophet further added, "Then she drank (water) and suckled her child. The angel said to her, 'Don't be afraid of being neglected, for this is the House of Allah which will be built by this boy and his father, and Allah never neglects His people.' The House (i.e. Kaba) at that time was on a high place resembling a hillock, and when torrents came, they flowed to its right and left. She lived in that way till some people from the tribe of Jurhum or a family from Jurhum passed by her and her child, as they (i.e. the Jurhum people) were coming through the way of Kada'. They landed in the lower part of Mecca where they saw a bird that had the habit of flying around water and not leaving it. They said, 'This bird must be flying around water, though we know that there is no water in this valley.' They sent one or two messengers who discovered the source of water, and returned to inform them of the water. So, they all came (towards the water)." The Prophet added, "Ishmael's mother was sitting near the water. They asked her, 'Do you allow us to stay with you?" She replied, 'Yes, but you will have no right to possess the water.' They agreed to that.


Genesis 21:17-21

17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her,
“What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid;
God has heard the boy crying as he lies there.
18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.”
19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water.
So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink.
20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer.
21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt.

Paran in the Bible is Mecca today
You continue to dishonor your prophet by ignoring the promise that God made to Abraham.

Gen 15:15-16 "And God said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. I will bless her, and moreover, I will give you a son by her. I will bless her, and she shall become nations; kings of peoples shall come from her.” Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed and said to himself, “Shall a child be born to a man who is a hundred years old? Shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?”"


You realize the promise that God made to Abraham to have have a son with Sarah was not Ishmael, right? The child of the promise was Isaac. It was not Ishmael.

Gal 4:22-23 "For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise."

If you put your hope in the one that God never promised to make into a great nation, and never promised to bring the Messiah out of, you will not see Paradise. God honored Ishmael as a son of Abraham, but it was Isaac that was the promised child. The messiah is a descendant of Abraham through Isaac.
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