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Old 02-13-2024, 06:52 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
Reputation: 3584

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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
The Holy Torah send to the messenger Musa (Moses )
God inspired Moses to write it. He did not "send it to him" as a complete form.
Quote:
The Holy Psalms (Zaboor) send to the Prophet Dawood (David)
You know that David did not write all the Psalms, right? Moses wrote one, Solomon wrote some, and several others were written by people we don't know.
Quote:
The Holy Gospel (Ingeel) send to the messenger Isa (Jesus)
And No, Jesus did not write the Gospels. They are about him, but written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did. Luke also wrote Acts.

Have you read them?
Quote:
The Holy Quran send to the final messenger Mahammad
No. God never spoke to Mahammad, nor did he give him any holy book.
Quote:

All the first three above books are not remaining the same as it was from the god
but only The final one The Holy Quran.
and The Holy Quran Abrogated all the previous Holy Books.
Pure nonsense. You dishonor your prophet, because he told us the Word of God cannot be broken.
Quote:
the Torah was changed by the rabbis affiliated with the law of Moses, peace be upon him,
so they write of their own accord what they desire and attribute it to Allah Almighty.
No. It was not. There is no reason to believe that. And you dishonor your prophet when you say that.
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Old 02-13-2024, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32903
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Jesus is God. He is the God that inspired the Bible.
No. There is no creator god.
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Old 02-14-2024, 08:00 AM
 
2,765 posts, read 2,664,439 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Jesus is God. He is the God that inspired the Bible.
Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is the Messiah ['Îsa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary).
" But the Messiah ['Îsa (Jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.
" Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him,
and the Fire will be his abode . And for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) there are no helpers.

Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity).
" But there is no Ilah (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilah (God -Allah).
And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them.
Will they not turn with repentance to Allah and ask His Forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
The Messiah ['Îsa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger;
many were the Messengers that passed away before him.
His mother [Maryam (Mary)] was a Siddiqah [i.e. she believed in the Words of Allah and His Books (see Verse 66:12)].
They both used to eat food (as any other human being, while Allah does not eat).
Look how We make the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to them;
yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth).
Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم to mankind):
"How do you worship besides Allah something which has no power either to harm or benefit you?
But it is Allah Who is the All-Hearer, All-Knower."
Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم):
"O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Exceed not the limits in your religion (by believing in something) other than the truth,
and do not follow the vain desires of people who went astray before and who misled many,
and strayed (themselves) from the Right Path."
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Old 02-14-2024, 08:08 AM
 
2,765 posts, read 2,664,439 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No. There is no creator god.

Verily, those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers, it is they on whom is the Curse of Allah and of the angels and of mankind, combined.
They will abide therein (under the curse in Hell), their punishment will neither be lightened, nor will they be reprieved.
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Old 02-14-2024, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill, FL
4,295 posts, read 1,553,748 times
Reputation: 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
They will abide therein (under the curse in Hell), their punishment will neither be lightened, nor will they be reprieved.
It seems odd to me that a loving god would send good people to "hell" just on the basis of not being a "believer" of their particular flavor of religion.
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Old 02-14-2024, 11:47 AM
 
63,775 posts, read 40,038,426 times
Reputation: 7868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
It seems odd to me that a loving god would send good people to "hell" just on the basis of not being a "believer" of their particular flavor of religion.
Understandably, a primitive mind might believe a loving God would demand specific beliefs and love using a Godfather threat of eternal Hell. But I cannot understand how any civilized modern mind can conflate a God who IS agape love with an oxymoronic eternal Hell threat. It boggles the mind that it has endured for over two millennia and counting!
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Old 02-14-2024, 12:45 PM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is the Messiah ['Îsa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary).
" But the Messiah ['Îsa (Jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.
" Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him,
and the Fire will be his abode . And for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) there are no helpers.
Please try to represent our views correctly. Christians do not believe in multiple gods, nor do we believe that God has a partner. You've been corrected. If you choose to continue in this misrepresentation, I can only conclude it is an attempt to be dishonest.

We believe in ONE God. We are strict monotheists.

All you are doing is demonstrating that the writer of the Quran did not understand what we believe.
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Old 02-14-2024, 12:46 PM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
It seems odd to me that a loving god would send good people to "hell" just on the basis of not being a "believer" of their particular flavor of religion.
You realize that is not what Christianity teaches, right? We believe God punishes sinners, not just a failure to believe, as if it's just a simple case of not seeing enough evidence.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill, FL
4,295 posts, read 1,553,748 times
Reputation: 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
You realize that is not what Christianity teaches, right? We believe God punishes sinners, not just a failure to believe, as if it's just a simple case of not seeing enough evidence.
Might not be what your brand preaches, however John 3:36: “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” seems pretty open/shut - not that I think the gospel of John is in any way reliable given it's date of composition.

And are we not all sinners? Seems he will punish you and I the same.
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Old 02-15-2024, 12:03 PM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
Might not be what your brand preaches, however John 3:36: “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” seems pretty open/shut - not that I think the gospel of John is in any way reliable given it's date of composition.

And are we not all sinners? Seems he will punish you and I the same.
Yes. The wrath of God is on all sinners -- and we are all sinners.

Now...do you know what "believes" in the verse above means? It's the Greek word "pistis". It's not just a case of having been convinced to agree on something. It means to trust. The one who trusts Christ as the Messiah has everlasting life.

So it's not a case of being punished for not believing, but instead being rewarded for trusting.
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