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Old 02-15-2024, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32904

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Yes. The wrath of God is on all sinners -- and we are all sinners.

Now...do you know what "believes" in the verse above means? It's the Greek word "pistis". It's not just a case of having been convinced to agree on something. It means to trust. The one who trusts Christ as the Messiah has everlasting life.

So it's not a case of being punished for not believing, but instead being rewarded for trusting.
It's not rude to have a different opinion.
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Old 02-15-2024, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,772 posts, read 13,665,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No. There is no creator god.
Well, Jesus was there with him. We just don't know if it was the baby Jesus, the full grown Jesus, or maybe he was the fetal Jesus. Perhaps Jesus was just a sparkle in God's eye back then.
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Old 02-15-2024, 12:44 PM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
It's not rude to have a different opinion.
I've never suggested otherwise. But do you really believe that?
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Old 02-15-2024, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I've never suggested otherwise. But do you really believe that?
You have suggested just that when non-believers or other-believers have spoken up.
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Old 02-15-2024, 01:02 PM
 
63,775 posts, read 40,038,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
Might not be what your brand preaches, however John 3:36: “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” seems pretty open/shut - not that I think the gospel of John is in any way reliable given its date of composition.

And are we not all sinners? Seems he will punish you and I the same.
God does NOT punish! We are warned of the negative spiritual consequences of BECOMING the wrong kind of Spirit, but God wants us to AVOID them. God is NOT imposing them on us as punishment. To our ancestors, such negative consequences had to be the result of God's wrath. But Jesus showed us God has no wrath. Humans punish. God does NOT! Our ways are not God's ways.

None of this has anything to do with our salvation because Jesus accomplished that and we have nothing to do with it. Our status after death and rebirth as "Saved Spirits" depends entirely on what kind of Spirit we have BECOME! However, in any case, it is NOT eternal
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Old 02-15-2024, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill, FL
4,295 posts, read 1,553,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
So it's not a case of being punished for not believing, but instead being rewarded for trusting.
I'm not big on trusting people who enlist their own wrath as something they're going to unleash onto people. Call me fussy.

A tinder profile of jealous, vengeful and wrathful does not make many swipe right - to use a modern analogy.
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Old 02-15-2024, 01:54 PM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
I'm not big on trusting people who enlist their own wrath as something they're going to unleash onto people. Call me fussy.

A tinder profile of jealous, vengeful and wrathful does not make many swipe right - to use a modern analogy.
I once had a neighbor that acted like he didn't know why the cops were always picking on him. He didn't realize that it had a lot to do with the fact that he was always breaking the law.

God is good, kind, merciful and loving. But he's also just. It's amazing how those that wish he'd punish evil don't appreciate it when he does.
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Old 02-15-2024, 05:58 PM
 
2,765 posts, read 2,664,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
It seems odd to me that a loving god would send good people to "hell" just on the basis of not being a "believer" of their particular flavor of religion.
flavor of religion is only one because
The religion is only one and it is submission to the creator

the idea is not to chsoose a Messenger that you like
the idea is to obey the one who send them

and Allah said follow the final holy book the Quran
Certainly Allah will admit those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah - Islamic Monotheism)
and do righteous good deeds, to Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise);
while those who disbelieve enjoy themselves and eat as cattle eat;
and the Fire will be their abode.
.


The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said,
"Nobody says: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'
and then later on he dies while believing in that, except that he will enter Paradise.'


Abu Dharr said , "Even It he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and theft."
The Prophet said 'Even If he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and theft,"
Abu Dharr "Even if he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and theft?
The Prophet said 'Even If he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and theft,"
Abu Dharr 'Even if he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and thefts.'
The Prophet said "Even If he had committed Illegal sexual intercourse and theft, inspite of the Abu Dharrs dislikeness.

Last edited by truth_teller; 02-15-2024 at 06:36 PM..
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Old 02-15-2024, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32904
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I once had a neighbor that acted like he didn't know why the cops were always picking on him. He didn't realize that it had a lot to do with the fact that he was always breaking the law.

God is good, kind, merciful and loving. But he's also just. It's amazing how those that wish he'd punish evil don't appreciate it when he does.
So when you feel people are attacking you here...
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Old 02-16-2024, 06:36 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
So when you feel people are attacking you here...
I realize that this forum is made up of people that, by and large, are like my neighbor. They don't appreciate being accountable to an authority figure.

If you disagree, please enlighten me. What authority do you base your life on? What rules do you base your life on? What "sin" am I committing in your worldview?
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