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Old 01-07-2024, 12:27 AM
 
2,765 posts, read 2,664,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
We don’t know anything about Jesus’ physical appearance, and it doesn’t really matter either.
He was probably though unremarkable and consistent within his own ethno-religious group.
The rest of the quotations from your holy book I am not qualified to comment on.
he was described by the final messenger
and the story of Mary the mother of Jesus is in the final Holy Book and i did not put all the verses


see the story of the born of Jesus

And she who guarded her chastity [Virgin Maryam (Mary)]:
We breathed into (the sleeves of) her (shirt or garment)
[through Our Ruh - Jibril (Gabriel)],
and We made her and her son ['Îsa (Jesus)] a sign for Al-'Alamin
(the mankind and jinn).
********
And mention Marium in the Book when she drew aside from her family to an eastern place;
So she took a veil (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our spirit, and there appeared to her a well-made man.
She said: Surely I fly for refuge from you to the Beneficent Allah, if you are one guarding (against evil).
He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.
She said: When shall I have a boy and no mortal has yet touched me, nor have I been unchaste?
He said: Even so; your Lord says: It is easy to Me: and that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from Us,
and it is a matter which has been decreed.
So she conceived him; then withdrew herself with him to a remote place.
And the throes (of childbirth) compelled her to betake herself to the trunk of a palm tree.
She said: Oh, would that I had died before this, and had been a thing quite forgotten!
Then (the child) called out to her from beneath her: Grieve not, surely your Lord has made a stream to flow beneath you;
And shake towards you the trunk of the palmtree, it will drop on you fresh ripe dates:
So eat and drink and refresh the eye.
Then if you see any mortal, say: Surely I have vowed a fast to the Beneficent Allah, so I shall not speak to any man today.
And she came to her people with him, carrying him (with her). They said: O Marium! surely you have done a strange thing.
O sister of Haroun! your father was not a bad man, nor, was your mother an unchaste woman.
But she pointed to him. They said: How should we speak to one who was a child in the cradle?
He said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet;
And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me prayer and poor-rate so long as I live;
And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed;
And peace on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the day I am raised to life.
Such is Isa, son of Marium; (this is) the saying of truth about which they dispute.
It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a son, glory to be Him;
when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is.
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Old 01-07-2024, 01:45 AM
 
Location: NSW
3,796 posts, read 2,992,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Jesus is the most recognized person in history. That's saying something considering not a single authentic image of him has ever surfaced. I can show anybody this pic and they will instantly say, "That's Jesus." Why do you think that is?


This is the stereotypical image of Jesus.
A caricature that has also been Angliciized.
Blame Catholicism for that one if you like. (yes we all know about graven images)
But this image is no different to Santa Claus in its authenticity, and he is a fictional character.

Last edited by Derek41; 01-07-2024 at 02:40 AM..
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Old 01-07-2024, 07:42 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,001,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
You don't have to. But you do need to understand that just as firmly and surely as you believe the words of the Bible are "god-breathed", a devout fundamentalist Muslim believes that God dictated the Quran to Mohammed.
No one said otherwise. Why are you telling me this?
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Old 01-07-2024, 08:11 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,660 posts, read 15,654,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
You don't have to. But you do need to understand that just as firmly and surely as you believe the words of the Bible are "god-breathed", a devout fundamentalist Muslim believes that God dictated the Quran to Mohammed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
No one said otherwise. Why are you telling me this?
Why tell you this? Because you said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Why should we believe this nonsense?
Looking at this objectively, why should anyone believe one holy book and reject another?
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Old 01-07-2024, 08:27 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,001,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Why tell you this? Because you said this:



Looking at this objectively, why should anyone believe one holy book and reject another?
My question stands. Why should we believe it?

But since you asked for objectivity, let's look at it objectively. The fact is, the Bible certainly DOES pass muster. It was written by many different authors over the course of thousands of years, while all agreeing on a central message. It predates the Quran by at least 600 years, The writer of the Quran obviously had no idea what the Bible teaches. It has 4 Gospels telling of the life of Jesus, the Quran has nothing close. The Quran was the compiled ramblings of 1 man. It has several inaccuracies about things, such as Christianity, and science.

And finally, the poster I responded to has a history of making statements that are not backed up by Scripture, or by any kind of objective facts.

So again, I'm confused. Why would you take exception with me questioning it? I certainly never doubted the strength of his belief.
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Old 01-07-2024, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
My question stands. Why should we believe it?

The fact is, the Bible certainly DOES pass muster. It was written by many different authors over the course of thousands of years, while all agreeing on a central message. It predates the Quran by at least 600 years, The writer of the Quran obviously had no idea what the Bible teaches. It has 4 Gospels telling of the life of Jesus, the Quran has nothing close.

The Quran was the compiled ramblings of 1 man. It has several inaccuracies about things, such as Christianity, and science.

And finally, the poster I responded to has a history of making statements that are not backed up by Scripture, or by any kind of objective facts.

So again, I'm confused. Why would you take exception with me questioning it? I certainly never doubted the strength of his belief.
Well, we can at least appreciate that you know you're confused.

Here's something you need to understand:

You believe in and admire the christian bible.
We Buddhists think it's a crock.
Muslims think it's not up to the standards of the Quran.
Many other religions think it's a fantasy.

Just because you believe it, doesn't make it so.
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Old 01-07-2024, 08:43 AM
 
2,410 posts, read 1,443,647 times
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I agree with BaptistFundie with comparisons between the Bible and the Quran. The Bible was composed by many different witnesses. Some were prophets, kings, doctors, and officials. The Quran was composed by one man. In a court of law, the more witnesses one have, the better. (Unless you have a video tape)

Even when we look at science, the theories that are accepted are those who have been tested by many scientists. This is called peer review. Well to Christians, because the Bible has many authors spanning different fields of view, Scripture is our peer reviewed journal. Again, the Quran only has one man claiming something unique.
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Old 01-07-2024, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,509 posts, read 84,688,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
I agree with BaptistFundie with comparisons between the Bible and the Quran. The Bible was composed by many different witnesses. Some were prophets, kings, doctors, and officials. The Quran was composed by one man. In a court of law, the more witnesses one have, the better. (Unless you have a video tape)

Even when we look at science, the theories that are accepted are those who have been tested by many scientists. This is called peer review. Well to Christians, because the Bible has many authors spanning different fields of view, Scripture is our peer reviewed journal. Again, the Quran only has one man claiming something unique.
Apples and oranges. The Bible is 66 different writings--books, letters, songs, poetry--written over centuries and bound into one volume and then called one book when it isn't. In some cases, like Samuel, another religion's book was split into two. Plus the meaning of the originals of some of the older parts of the Bible were reinterpreted to fit the newer ones, like the Hebrew Garden of Eden story being revamped to fit the Christian original sin/redemption framework suggested by Paul's epistles and developed into doctrine hundreds of years later.

The Quran, as you point out, is just one book by one author. I don't think the two can really be compared beyond what what one believes.
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Old 01-07-2024, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
I agree with BaptistFundie with comparisons between the Bible and the Quran. The Bible was composed by many different witnesses. Some were prophets, kings, doctors, and officials. The Quran was composed by one man. In a court of law, the more witnesses one have, the better. (Unless you have a video tape)

Even when we look at science, the theories that are accepted are those who have been tested by many scientists. This is called peer review. Well to Christians, because the Bible has many authors spanning different fields of view, Scripture is our peer reviewed journal. Again, the Quran only has one man claiming something unique.
And they have just as many reasons to totally doubt your fictional book.
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Old 01-07-2024, 11:20 AM
 
2,410 posts, read 1,443,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Apples and oranges. The Bible is 66 different writings--books, letters, songs, poetry--written over centuries and bound into one volume and then called one book when it isn't. In some cases, like Samuel, another religion's book was split into two. Plus the meaning of the originals of some of the older parts of the Bible were reinterpreted to fit the newer ones, like the Hebrew Garden of Eden story being revamped to fit the Christian original sin/redemption framework suggested by Paul's epistles and developed into doctrine hundreds of years later.

The Quran, as you point out, is just one book by one author. I don't think the two can really be compared beyond what what one believes.

Yet I would argue this. If both are to be seen as authentic holy writings, there are many witnesses speaking to the word of Yahweh, vs one witness speaking to the word of Allah. This is where the Bible has the advantage in this context. (In the context of why should we believe these writings)
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