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Old 01-11-2024, 12:30 AM
 
2,707 posts, read 2,618,298 times
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The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said,
Jesus, seeing a man stealing, asked him,
'Did you steal?,
He said,
'No, by Allah, except Whom there is None who has the right to be worshipped'
Jesus said,
'I believe in Allah and suspect my eyes."
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Old 01-11-2024, 04:08 PM
 
18,821 posts, read 6,845,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
If we're relying on John, the last gospel to be written (reckoned to be written circa 100AD) for direct quotes from Jesus when the earlier gospels have no such quotes I think you're on shaky ground. You'd think a "quote" of that importance would be relayed in the earliest gospel seeing as it's the foundation for the entire faith. No?

Its like me now writing down a direct, never heard before quote from Calvin Coolidge.
It's the inspired Word of God. Yes. I believe it.
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Old 01-11-2024, 04:09 PM
 
18,821 posts, read 6,845,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said,
Jesus, seeing a man stealing, asked him,
'Did you steal?,
He said,
'No, by Allah, except Whom there is None who has the right to be worshipped'
Jesus said,
'I believe in Allah and suspect my eyes."
Jesus never said that.
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Old 01-11-2024, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,223 posts, read 23,846,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Jesus never said that.
I doubt he said he said it, as well.

But how do you know?
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Old 01-11-2024, 06:14 PM
 
63,448 posts, read 39,695,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
It's the inspired Word of God. Yes. I believe it.
Jesus is the one and only Word of God (Logos), BF! I believe it as well but not in the way it has been misunderstood. His human "mind of Christ" (Spirit) is identical to the "mind of God" (Holy Spirit) NOT His physical body or "person." All the Trinity nonsense about "persons" is confused human rationalization.
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Old 01-11-2024, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,830 posts, read 7,179,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
But how do you know?
They don't. These people are all living in the land of make believe, all making stuff up according to what they want to be true, and arguing over their different versions of the completely imaginary, and mythological translated stories and primitive ancient human history.

Nobody alive today even definitely knows whether this character Jesus existed at all, let alone what or any of the things ascribed to him. Especially any of the crazy supernatural claims that make no sense.
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Old 01-11-2024, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,625 posts, read 2,818,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
But how do you know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
They don't. These people are all living in the land of make believe, all making stuff up according to what they want to be true, and arguing over their different versions of the completely imaginary, and mythological translated stories and primitive ancient human history.

Nobody alive today even definitely knows whether this character Jesus existed at all, let alone what or any of the things ascribed to him. Especially any of the crazy supernatural claims that make no sense.
Supernatural: attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

And yet, take a look at the common ant. That such a small thing can be alive and doing its thing is, at least, amazing if we actually put some thought into it. What kind of miniaturized computer is driving the ant? There IS no computer. And there are countless other examples on planet earth of 'life' and 'living things' in motion. It's almost 'supernatural' since no human can replicate these things. They try. I heard once - don't know how true it is - that science actually replicated a hen's egg. It was a 'genuine' egg in every way, complete with shell. It was placed underneath a hen. Guess what? Nothing. It lacked that 'supernatural breath of life'.

I realize that this doesn't demonstrate the existence of the biblical God, but it surely demonstrates the existence of 'something' that is way beyond our present understanding. I do agree with you regarding those people who are living in the land of make believe, making stuff up according to what they want to be true, and arguing over their different versions of the completely imaginary, and mythological translated stories and primitive ancient human history. But does this mean that we therefore have to throw out the entire Bible because some humans have, even though unintentionally, made a mockery of it?

Perhaps, other than a few, the majority of professed Christians haven't yet caught up to the Bible and its, at times, cryptic meanings that have so far evaded most, hence the reason for their own interpretations. Let us keep the Bible and allow it to remain a source of knowledge that keeps increasing the more we study and understand it. Yes, of course toss out the obvious nonsense, but keep it around. It may come in handy more than we presently realize.
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Old 01-11-2024, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,223 posts, read 23,846,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
They don't. These people are all living in the land of make believe, all making stuff up according to what they want to be true, and arguing over their different versions of the completely imaginary, and mythological translated stories and primitive ancient human history.

Nobody alive today even definitely knows whether this character Jesus existed at all, let alone what or any of the things ascribed to him. Especially any of the crazy supernatural claims that make no sense.
You mean they don't have recordings of everything that Jesus said...yet they know exactly what he said. It's amazing.
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Old 01-11-2024, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,830 posts, read 7,179,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV View Post
Supernatural: attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
'Supernatural' means something that the laws of nature don't apply to. Since we don't fully understand the laws of nature (there's no 'theory of everything' yet), I don't see how we can say that about anything.

Whatever they thought was supernatural during biblical times, was most likely stuff they didn't understand, which was a whole lot back then.

What people claim is supernatural now... is just that, a claim. Faith beliefs without supporting evidence. Something they want to be true.

Quote:
And yet, take a look at the common ant. That such a small thing can be alive and doing its thing is, at least, amazing if we actually put some thought into it. What kind of miniaturized computer is driving the ant? There IS no computer. And there are countless other examples on planet earth of 'life' and 'living things' in motion.
Amazing, yes. Supernatural, no. Ants have pretty awesome brains for what they are. And they use a lot of teamwork.

Quote:
It's almost 'supernatural' since no human can replicate these things. They try. I heard once - don't know how true it is - that science actually replicated a hen's egg. It was a 'genuine' egg in every way, complete with shell. It was placed underneath a hen. Guess what? Nothing. It lacked that 'supernatural breath of life'.
Do you have a link to an article about this study?

I'm sure there was something different about whatever was fabricated.

It's known that we can trick the human body into accepting replacement body parts, so that's not impossible. Especially with nanotechnology advancements and etc.

Quote:
I realize that this doesn't demonstrate the existence of the biblical God, but it surely demonstrates the existence of 'something' that is way beyond our present understanding.
What exactly demonstrates what exactly? The fact that you don't understand something or I don't understand something (or even if no one understands something), demonstrates what?

It demonstrates simply that we don't understand something. It doesn't demonstrate that the thing in question is not possible to be understood eventually, and it doesn't demonstrate that it's in any way any more 'supernatural' than anything else about the universe that we do understand.

Again, on the day when we fully, truly understand the workings of the natural universe, only then we can say that something that happens in contradiction of these workings could be possibly supernatural. We're not as ignorant as they were in biblical times, but we're still pretty ignorant.

Quote:
I do agree with you regarding those people who are living in the land of make believe, making stuff up according to what they want to be true, and arguing over their different versions of the completely imaginary, and mythological translated stories and primitive ancient human history. But does this mean that we therefore have to throw out the entire Bible because some humans have, even though unintentionally, made a mockery of it?
Throw out the Bible as what? Something of deeply ingrained and prominent cultural value? Historical narrative critical to understanding civilizations? An ancient work of mythological fiction?

We don't need to throw it out. We just simply need to see it for what it is. People want it (and other similar religious texts), to be what it is not, which is an actual real truth of any of the myths it contains.

Quote:
Perhaps, other than a few, the majority of professed Christians haven't yet caught up to the Bible and its, at times, cryptic meanings that have so far evaded most, hence the reason for their own interpretations. Let us keep the Bible and allow it to remain a source of knowledge that keeps increasing the more we study and understand it. Yes, of course toss out the obvious nonsense, but keep it around. It may come in handy more than we presently realize.
I'm all for the Christian Bible being everywhere and available to everyone, as well as any other holy texts.

What I'm also for, is a world of scientific enlightenment and knowledge and reason, where we aren't fooled by ridiculous superstitions and empty promises about souls and heaven. We should face reality as what it is, and not pretend about things.
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Old 01-11-2024, 11:30 PM
 
63,448 posts, read 39,695,513 times
Reputation: 7787
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
They don't. These people are all living in the land of make believe, all making stuff up according to what they want to be true, and arguing over their different versions of the completely imaginary, and mythological translated stories and primitive ancient human history.

Nobody alive today even definitely knows whether this character Jesus existed at all, let alone what or any of the things ascribed to him. Especially any of the crazy supernatural claims that make no sense.
I would not say nobody alive today knows because the consciousness I encountered exactly matched the "mind of Christ" as depicted in the Bible narrative, especially on the Cross. To ME, this means somebody like Him had the consciousness of the God I encountered. That is sufficiently coincidental to satisfy my choice of religious belief. YMMV.
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