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Old 02-01-2024, 01:02 PM
 
12,044 posts, read 6,593,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Sounds to me that you were never a "true" atheist....
I never said I was — I just “tried” to be…..

As the atheists here have admitted it’s so much easier than wrestling with spiritual challenges.

Last edited by mountainrose; 02-01-2024 at 01:12 PM..
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Old 02-01-2024, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
20,084 posts, read 13,542,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
I never said I was — I just “tried” to be…..

As the atheists here have admitted it’s so much easier than wrestling with spiritual challenges.
I think Eddie was just being ironically humorous as believers often say we deconverts were "never true believers".

But one CAN also argue that someone "trying" to be unbelieving is by definition not an unbeliever, any more than someone "trying" to be in love is a good candidate for a spouse -- or as the old chestnut has it, living in a garage doesn't make you into a car.

I am an atheist because of my unbelief. I actually no longer believe. I think you never stopped. Hence in a sense Eddie might be right.

I have had life challenges the same as you or anyone. I have just embraced a more economical explanation for suffering. In my view, there is no reason (and it is unhelpful) to see such suffering as authored, personal, and directed toward us. For me, that way lies madness. It's a horribly leaky abstraction.
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Old 02-01-2024, 02:27 PM
 
12,044 posts, read 6,593,254 times
Reputation: 13985
Oh yes, Eddie is correct.
I never was a true atheist — so sorry guys — I thought I had made that clear.
I “ tried” to be but found I couldn’t not believe.

Mordant, it wasn’t life challenges I was frustrated and challenged with — as I’ve also had my share of life’s tragedies, it was specific “spiritual” challenges I was so frustrated and challenged with. I don’t want to bore everyone with the details, so briefly it had to do with rebelling against and untangling myself from some scriptural and “religious” dogma and biblical literalism I didn’t believe in or want anything to do with.
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Old 02-01-2024, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,970 posts, read 24,467,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
I never said I was — I just “tried” to be…..

As the atheists here have admitted it’s so much easier than wrestling with spiritual challenges.
Where have the atheists here admitted that? Please tell me specific posts.

In my case, for example, for much of my life I was a christian, first as a methodist, and later as a catholic. I ended up a Buddhist (and very happy with it). Are you so shallow that changing religions and then giving up a religion, and becoming part of a religion not common in my country has no "spiritual challenges"?
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Old 02-01-2024, 03:29 PM
 
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Yes, Phet — according to you I am very shallow along with a few other insults you’ve thrown at me in various posts……if you think so badly of me, why don’t you PLEASE put me on ignore instead of stalking me and others with your constant insults???

Both Mordant and LearnMe (along with others) have said being an atheist was much easier and pleasant for them not having to deal with spiritual conflicts and beliefs….
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Old 02-01-2024, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,970 posts, read 24,467,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
Yes, Phet — according to you I am very shallow along with a few other insults you’ve thrown at me in various posts……if you think so badly of me, why don’t you PLEASE put me on ignore instead of stalking me and others with your constant insults???

Both Mordant and LearnMe (along with others) have said being an atheist was much easier and pleasant for them not having to deal with spiritual conflicts and beliefs….
I think you're minimizing what they said.

And if you don't like my posts, why don't YOU put me on ignore?



In fact, I will tell you that if you were posting up in the christianity subforum, I wouldn't even be reading your posts.

Meanwhile, let's ask Mordant -- did you never have any spiritual concerns?
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Old 02-01-2024, 04:27 PM
 
12,044 posts, read 6,593,254 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I think you're minimizing what they said.

And if you don't like my posts, why don't YOU put me on ignore?



In fact, I will tell you that if you were posting up in the christianity subforum, I wouldn't even be reading your posts.

Meanwhile, let's ask Mordant -- did you never have any spiritual concerns?
Good grief Phet — where did I say Mordant never had any spiritual concerns at some time??
He said after he was an atheist it became much easier to deal with his life’s tragedies.
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Old 02-01-2024, 04:28 PM
 
12,044 posts, read 6,593,254 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I think you're minimizing what they said.

And if you don't like my posts, why don't YOU put me on ignore?



In fact, I will tell you that if you were posting up in the christianity subforum, I wouldn't even be reading your posts.

Meanwhile, let's ask Mordant -- did you never have any spiritual concerns?
It’s not your posts I don’t like, it’s your insults and unkindness to others.
There are Buddhist practices on lovingkindness and tolerance you may want to look into
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Old 02-01-2024, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
20,084 posts, read 13,542,799 times
Reputation: 9974
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Where have the atheists here admitted that? Please tell me specific posts.

In my case, for example, for much of my life I was a christian, first as a methodist, and later as a catholic. I ended up a Buddhist (and very happy with it). Are you so shallow that changing religions and then giving up a religion, and becoming part of a religion not common in my country has no "spiritual challenges"?
I don't think mountain rose meant that there are no spiritual challenges in other paths. In any case, I personally think the word "spiritual" can be dispensed with as needless window dressing. Everyone's life has challenges and "growth opportunities" and things that test our mettle. The religious tend to frame it in spiritual terms but in my view this does not add any explanatory or predictive power.

There is no virtue in making a thing harder than it needs to be. To pick an example, losing a loved one in death is already challenging, involving a sometimes multi-year journey of sorrow. To center the lost loved one in some Divine Plan, and try to understand or reconcile how this wonderful loving plan involved all this suffering, etc., just is a fool's errand. It assumes a bunch of stuff that we can't know to be true (even if I thought it likely to be true, which I don't). I'm not running from suffering, struggle or challenge -- I would not have escaped it in any case when my 2nd wife or son died or my first wife lost her sanity. Death is death and suffering is suffering and loss is loss. I just didn't want to decorate my suffering with yet more misery. I didn't want to subtract from my ability to make sense of what was happening to me. Simple grief from misfortune is painful enough without turning it into something more than that. And I literally NEVER found religious ideation to reduce suffering; it only increased it. The most it ever did for me was promise me eventual (post-death) coherence. And that is no help with the present situation at all.
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Old 02-01-2024, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,970 posts, read 24,467,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
Good grief Phet — where did I say Mordant never had any spiritual concerns at some time??
He said after he was an atheist it became much easier to deal with his life’s tragedies.
"Both Mordant and LearnMe (along with others) have said being an atheist was much easier and pleasant for them not having to deal with spiritual conflicts and beliefs…."
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