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Old 02-01-2024, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
It’s not your posts I don’t like, it’s your insults and unkindness to others.
There are Buddhist practices on lovingkindness and tolerance you may want to look into
Once again we have a dominant-christian telling a non-christian how they should conduct their own religion. That's exactly the problem.
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Old 02-01-2024, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,772 posts, read 13,665,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
Yes, Phet — according to you I am very shallow along with a few other insults you’ve thrown at me in various posts……if you think so badly of me, why don’t you PLEASE put me on ignore instead of stalking me and others with your constant insults???

Both Mordant and LearnMe (along with others) have said being an atheist was much easier and pleasant for them not having to deal with spiritual conflicts and beliefs….
I'm sorry but I have to chime in again and say that it is much easier not having to deal with spiritual conflicts and beliefs... just as you say.

But that is because it doesn't require one to try and fit things that happen into any kind of system so to speak. One don't have to worry about "why bad things happen to good people" for instance. One can accept the fact that some things happen randomly to people.

More specific to my experience. I don't have to try and make sense of the Bible any more. I think many of us who were "Christians" in our past... once we began to examine the Bible we found it to be extremely troublesome. Not just the crazy OT stuff... but even some of the NT stuff and the doctrine derived from it.

For instance, in the Gospels one of the gospels says Joseph and Mary packed Jesus off to Egypt after he was born and stayed there a couple of years. Another gospel says Joseph and Mary went from Bethlehem back to Nazareth after he was born.

One gospel says Jesus was crucified the day before Passover. One says the day after.

Then the doctrinal stuff.... it goes on and on. Baptism/Gifts of the Spirit/Age of Accountability/Faith vs. Works. All sides have their pet verses to back up their position on these things.

Yes, it is easier to be a non believer than to to "wrestle" with these things.
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Old 02-02-2024, 04:22 AM
 
12,031 posts, read 6,561,999 times
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No need to apologize Eddie — I agree on the scriptural problems — that’s why I tried to become an atheist. I stated in post #103 it was scriptural problems and contradictions I was wrestling with myself.
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Old 02-02-2024, 05:55 AM
 
12,031 posts, read 6,561,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Once again we have a dominant-christian telling a non-christian how they should conduct their own religion. That's exactly the problem.
LOL — not at all — I’m a great respector of Buddhist practices — most are the same practices as Christianity.
But since your negativity, bullying, insulting and intolerance has been well-documented in this forum, I thought you might be interested in Buddhist practices we can BOTH benefit from. This is called sharing — not domination…and I welcome any Christian practices you’d like to share

From - The Buddha on Compassion

https://www.meaning.ca/article/the-b...d%20acceptance.

“It is for this reason that the Buddhist metta practice – the practice of loving kindness – is directed not only towards charity, good deeds and kind words, but perhaps more importantly, towards the cultivation of forgiveness, tolerance and acceptance.

Buddhism perceives love and compassion as going hand in hand with wisdom, as if they were the two wings of a bird. Wisdom in this context refers to the realization of the truth of life that sets the mind free of its obsessions, fixations and mental negativities”
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Old 02-02-2024, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
LOL — not at all — I’m a great respector of Buddhist practices — most are the same practices as Christianity.
But since your negativity, bullying, insulting and intolerance has been well-documented in this forum, I thought you might be interested in Buddhist practices we can BOTH benefit from. This is called sharing — not domination…and I welcome any Christian practices you’d like to share

From - The Buddha on Compassion

https://www.meaning.ca/article/the-b...d%20acceptance.

“It is for this reason that the Buddhist metta practice – the practice of loving kindness – is directed not only towards charity, good deeds and kind words, but perhaps more importantly, towards the cultivation of forgiveness, tolerance and acceptance.

Buddhism perceives love and compassion as going hand in hand with wisdom, as if they were the two wings of a bird. Wisdom in this context refers to the realization of the truth of life that sets the mind free of its obsessions, fixations and mental negativities”
You seem to think that all Buddhists are on the same path, and that we all need to be meek. Once again, stop preaching a religion you don't even follow.
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Old 02-02-2024, 09:22 AM
 
29,526 posts, read 9,700,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
LearnMe,
From what I gather through your posts, you never had a personal experiential relationship with Jesus or with God, but instead were trapped in a dysfunctional fundamental organized religion experience.
So no problem not believing in all that for you…..

I came from an atheist family — my father was a professor at a top Ivy League university and all his Mensa friends plus most of my family looked down on and spoke harshly on anything that smacked of religion. So I had no interest in religion when out of the blue at around 19 I was given the miracle of the presence of Jesus and later of God.

So yes decades later in my forties during a difficult spiritual struggle time, I decided, wanted, and had to “try” to be an atheist because God for me, unlike for you, was not a belief - I could not just say I didn’t “believe” in anymore, it was something I directly experience. For me it would be like trying to say I don’t “believe” in gravity anymore.

As I posted above, since I found I couldn’t NOT believe after trying, the closest to atheism I could manage was to harden my heart and close off to my communion with God.
Rose, "close but no cigar."

I can't be sure I didn't have a "personal experiential relationship with Jesus or with God," because back when I was a believer, I felt that connection in ways I think most religious people do. I can't really say how profound those experiences were compared to yours, but it wasn't so much about how profound they were then. Instead I simply began to interpret those experiences differently as time went on. Considering the other explanations other than a god.

Where you have inspired me to comment about your comments is with respect to how you describe being an atheist. Now it seems you agree you never were, but what you wrote earlier is this. "In my forties I tried to be an atheist for a few years — sooooo much easier!!" So much easier as if believing in god and/or being an atheist has anything to do with effort. In a way suggesting atheists don't put in equal effort, but effort to do what?

Then too you assume I was "trapped in a dysfunctional fundamental organized religion experience." Of course I don't expect anyone to know all that everyone posts in this forum, but many times I have explained exactly the opposite. My experience as a Christian/Catholic was fairly pleasant. Only complaint perhaps was some of the rituals in church, but otherwise I was plenty happy and worry-free as a Christian/Catholic who believed in God. Seemed easy enough to me, back when I assumed what I was taught was true without asking too many if any questions.

My point by way of my counter comments has really just been to dispel some of these myths about what becoming an atheist is all about and how the experience should not always be cast in the negative light that religious folks typically like to cast. Although we all know the many sad stories about experiences people have had with religion. Again interesting to note, don't you think, that atheists generally don't claim to have those sorts of negative experiences as atheists?

The fact that you were never actually an atheist makes it difficult for you to understand this I think, but if you were ever able to actually become an atheist for the reasons I have become an atheist, I think you would better understand. It's not in any way difficult. Not unless you have the very common problem of religious indoctrination that makes shaking the yoke of that sort of mental conditioning very difficult even later in life. This and also the common need or want for "something more" does pose a problem for people who are in need, wanting or lacking something that matters to them emotionally. Atheists don't generally feel that way and if they do, they don't see religion or believing in a god as how best to address or fulfill those needs, wants or desires.

As I have also commented in this forum before, I was once clinically depressed for longer than I care to admit, and I searched for what might help me in a serious way. Even as "needy" as I was then, all I found in the way of "god answers" didn't work. Try as I might. That path was the harder one for me, but not for any reason other than what I can simply describe as my inability to kid myself that way. Frankly I'm not really sure what worked eventually, but I'm very glad to say I am no longer depressed but happier than I deserve all considered. About as happy as I have ever been. Enjoying life about as much as I ever have. Lucky to have family, friends and the life I have.

No worries or issues about God in any case. No more than I have worries or issues about heaven or hell. Always seems I have other more important things to worry about. Real things...

Last edited by LearnMe; 02-02-2024 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 02-02-2024, 10:37 AM
 
29,526 posts, read 9,700,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
LearnMe,
From what I gather through your posts, you never had a personal experiential relationship with Jesus or with God, but instead were trapped in a dysfunctional fundamental organized religion experience.
So no problem not believing in all that for you…..

I came from an atheist family — my father was a professor at a top Ivy League university and all his Mensa friends plus most of my family looked down on and spoke harshly on anything that smacked of religion. So I had no interest in religion when out of the blue at around 19 I was given the miracle of the presence of Jesus and later of God.

So yes decades later in my forties during a difficult spiritual struggle time, I decided, wanted, and had to “try” to be an atheist because God for me, unlike for you, was not a belief - I could not just say I didn’t “believe” in anymore, it was something I directly experience. For me it would be like trying to say I don’t “believe” in gravity anymore.

As I posted above, since I found I couldn’t NOT believe after trying, the closest to atheism I could manage was to harden my heart and close off to my communion with God.
Your comment here brings another thought to mind...

Might it be that your negative experience with a family who "looked down on and spoke harshly on anything that smacked of religion" left you with the same "bad taste in your mouth" about atheism that atheists in similar fashion complain about their negative religious family experiences?

If so, what might these negative early experiences do to our ways of thinking later on in life? No one answer of course, but also worthy of consideration in my opinion...
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Old 02-02-2024, 11:05 AM
 
12,031 posts, read 6,561,999 times
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Post #116
Thanks for the great explanation, LearnMe — and BRAVO for finding your way out of such a deep depression — so many depressives get trapped there when even medications won’t work.

Post#117 —your question does make sense, but I don’t have ANY distaste for atheists — in fact I’ve been happily married to one for 43 years. He’s a good man and my soul mate. He’s so stable in his atheist path he doesn’t need to go on forums mocking or complaining about Christians. Nor do I, as a Christian, feel the need to mock or provoke atheists, but like others here have an interest in different spiritual experiences, lessons, and paths.

A Christian neighbor approached him a few months ago about him playing poker with his friends every week, ( he had invited the neighbor to join them) and he explained he couldn’t because it was actually considered a sin as it was a form of gambling.
LOL — we both just laughed about it and felt sad and compassionate that he was trapped in such a rigid sin dogma.
But my atheist husband also knows and appreciates some of the most generous, tolerant, kind hearted, and mature people he knows are Christians — there’s atheist jerks and there’s Christian jerks…..the challenge is to not be either!

Last edited by mountainrose; 02-02-2024 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 02-03-2024, 08:53 AM
 
29,526 posts, read 9,700,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
Post #116
Thanks for the great explanation, LearnMe — and BRAVO for finding your way out of such a deep depression — so many depressives get trapped there when even medications won’t work.

Post#117 —your question does make sense, but I don’t have ANY distaste for atheists — in fact I’ve been happily married to one for 43 years. He’s a good man and my soul mate. He’s so stable in his atheist path he doesn’t need to go on forums mocking or complaining about Christians. Nor do I, as a Christian, feel the need to mock or provoke atheists, but like others here have an interest in different spiritual experiences, lessons, and paths.

A Christian neighbor approached him a few months ago about him playing poker with his friends every week, ( he had invited the neighbor to join them) and he explained he couldn’t because it was actually considered a sin as it was a form of gambling.
LOL — we both just laughed about it and felt sad and compassionate that he was trapped in such a rigid sin dogma.
But my atheist husband also knows and appreciates some of the most generous, tolerant, kind hearted, and mature people he knows are Christians — there’s atheist jerks and there’s Christian jerks…..the challenge is to not be either!
Down with jerks! I'll drink to that!
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Old 02-05-2024, 08:06 PM
 
10,020 posts, read 4,955,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You seem to think that all Buddhists are on the same path, and that we all need to be meek......
Jesus promised that the meek will inherit the Earth - Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
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