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Old 02-10-2024, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,607 posts, read 13,425,275 times
Reputation: 17523

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
Funnily enough I’ve always regarded the words Pentecostal and Charismatic as being somewhat interchangeable.
Pentecostals themselves are a branch of Evangelical Christianity., who still believe in the “Gifts of the Spirit”.
In many predominantly Catholic countries, like Latin America and the Philippines, they tend to be attracted to Pentecostalism.
Such groups tend to be conservative, but not at the same level as many so-called white mainline evangelicals.
With continued immigration, obviously these people and groups are much more prevalent and noticeable now.
Yes, my perspective is from a US centric point of view. Pentecostals are a actual churches that exist as such. Charismatics are people from more "mainstream" churches who believe in the "gifts of the spirit".

My parents were (for a while) "Charismatic" Lutherans... ultimately they left the Lutheran Church... And although we visited some Pentecostal and Assembly of God churches... they never felt like we as a family were a good cultural fit.

We actually did make a go of it at an Assembly of God in our suburban town for a few months. But they didn't stay... which broke my heart because I had the hots for a girl in the youth group.

We ended up in what was one of the early non denominal "Megachurches" that was started by a young evangelist named Richard Hogue.. who decided it was time to get off the road. He was a charismatic who came out of the Southern Baptist church. Of course that didn't last either.

Quite frankly, I got the impression from my own experience that charismatics could of thought they were "missing out" by not claiming the gifts of the spirit... But they really weren't really willing to hang out with the poor and uneducated people in order to perform them.
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Old 02-10-2024, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,607 posts, read 13,425,275 times
Reputation: 17523
I wanted to make a different post on a thought I had that is related to Mordant's OP.

First, I want to say that I have been to traditional Black churches a few times because I befriended a pastor of one through kind of a freak series of events.

One of the things I observed is that the Black church was busy trying to help people in their own community. The mentality there was that they were supportive of anyone else who would help regardless if it was a private or public concern. In essence there was a lot less of the "not with my tax money" mentality.

My experience in conservative white churches is that they are helping "others". While there is no doubt that these churches take care of their own flock... I don't get the impression that they see the poor and downtrodden as really a part of their "own' community like I did with my friend in his dealings with his Black congregation.
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Old 02-10-2024, 07:12 PM
Status: "Without God, life is tragic and absurd." (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,360 posts, read 12,637,956 times
Reputation: 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I wanted to make a different post on a thought I had that is related to Mordant's OP.

First, I want to say that I have been to traditional Black churches a few times because I befriended a pastor of one through kind of a freak series of events.

One of the things I observed is that the Black church was busy trying to help people in their own community. The mentality there was that they were supportive of anyone else who would help regardless if it was a private or public concern. In essence there was a lot less of the "not with my tax money" mentality.

My experience in conservative white churches is that they are helping "others". While there is no doubt that these churches take care of their own flock... I don't get the impression that they see the poor and downtrodden as really a part of their "own' community like I did with my friend in his dealings with his Black congregation.
My Southern Baptist mega church bought land and built a medical and dental clinic to serve the poor in our community. We also give coats and toys to poor children at Christmas every year. We’re probably 90% white and our county voted for Trump twice at 70%.
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Old 02-11-2024, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Texas
24 posts, read 3,513 times
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This isn't really news to most people.
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Old 02-11-2024, 12:41 PM
 
Location: USA
18,422 posts, read 9,039,452 times
Reputation: 8461
What will be the impact of minorities on evangelicalism?

I don’t know…maybe the cheesy worship services will have more rap music? Other than that, probably not much impact. Evangelism is essentially American consumer culture plus Jesus. There’s a reason their churches look like shopping centers and malls.
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Old 02-11-2024, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,607 posts, read 13,425,275 times
Reputation: 17523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
My Southern Baptist mega church bought land and built a medical and dental clinic to serve the poor in our community. We also give coats and toys to poor children at Christmas every year. We’re probably 90% white and our county voted for Trump twice at 70%.
I probably need to rephrase my comments because I didn't make my point very clearly.

Your church did all this. And that is awesome. But how many of these "poor" people actually GO to your church? How many of these "poor" people do you personally know or interact with at any level. I'd suspect that there are some volunteers to the poor in your church but for the most part, these poor people are not directly connected to the congregation. You guys just fund the projects. And I certainly don't think it is bad or wrong. But you don't have the same perspective.

In the Black church... These "poor" people are part of their church and part of their immediate community. . For instance, in the church my friend pastored. There were families who attended who had gang members in their immediate family. It wasn't unusual to have family members who were incarcerated... had drug issues. All that stuff.

My main point is that these type of churches (Black churches) are full of people who see government help as an important component in helping people that they are directly involved with. OTOH, I would suspect that the people in your church would see it differently. That it should be a private sector endeavor (as your church is providing) and not the government that provides relief for the poor.

That is just how it is. You guys are at arms length away from these poor people and the Black church is right in the middle of it. As a result, you all have different perspectives on how the problem of the poor should be handled. And this is a lot of why their is a schism between Black and White fundamentalist/evangelical types.
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Old 02-11-2024, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,124 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32521
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I probably need to rephrase my comments because I didn't make my point very clearly.

Your church did all this. And that is awesome. But how many of these "poor" people actually GO to your church? How many of these "poor" people do you personally know or interact with at any level. I'd suspect that there are some volunteers to the poor in your church but for the most part, these poor people are not directly connected to the congregation. You guys just fund the projects. And I certainly don't think it is bad or wrong. But you don't have the same perspective.

In the Black church... These "poor" people are part of their church and part of their immediate community. . For instance, in the church my friend pastored. There were families who attended who had gang members in their immediate family. It wasn't unusual to have family members who were incarcerated... had drug issues. All that stuff.

My main point is that these type of churches (Black churches) are full of people who see government help as an important component in helping people that they are directly involved with. OTOH, I would suspect that the people in your church would see it differently. That it should be a private sector endeavor (as your church is providing) and not the government that provides relief for the poor.

That is just how it is. You guys are at arms length away from these poor people and the Black church is right in the middle of it. As a result, you all have different perspectives on how the problem of the poor should be handled. And this is a lot of why their is a schism between Black and White fundamentalist/evangelical types.
This reminds me very much of what happened at the school where I was principal. Our school boundary was mostly solid middle class to upper class (with one small area that was quite poor). One year our PTA came and said that they wanted to do a drive to collect things that a local homeless shelter could use...which was quite a surprise. I had an idea how it would go down, but I not only gave my permission, but also supported their efforts, and they took in a truly significant amount of appropriate clothing items, canned goods, and other necessities that homeless shelter people could use. And then, when they were finished, they came to me and said, "Okay, Mr. Victor, you can deliver the stuff to the homeless shelter now". Part of the reason was that they wanted to use my van for delivery, which was fine. But when I said, "Well, we can use my van, but I need to see some of you and some of your children helping when we arrive at the shelter", I thought they were going to have a collective stroke. "We can't go there around those people!" "Well, then I guess all that stuff won't ever get to the shelter". After much angst, one parent finally said, "Okay, my daughter and I will volunteer", and then a couple more did. But, as you point out, they wanted to do good, but at arm's length.
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Old 02-11-2024, 04:16 PM
Status: "Without God, life is tragic and absurd." (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,360 posts, read 12,637,956 times
Reputation: 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I probably need to rephrase my comments because I didn't make my point very clearly.

Your church did all this. And that is awesome. But how many of these "poor" people actually GO to your church? How many of these "poor" people do you personally know or interact with at any level. I'd suspect that there are some volunteers to the poor in your church but for the most part, these poor people are not directly connected to the congregation. You guys just fund the projects. And I certainly don't think it is bad or wrong. But you don't have the same perspective.

In the Black church... These "poor" people are part of their church and part of their immediate community. . For instance, in the church my friend pastored. There were families who attended who had gang members in their immediate family. It wasn't unusual to have family members who were incarcerated... had drug issues. All that stuff.

My main point is that these type of churches (Black churches) are full of people who see government help as an important component in helping people that they are directly involved with. OTOH, I would suspect that the people in your church would see it differently. That it should be a private sector endeavor (as your church is providing) and not the government that provides relief for the poor.

That is just how it is. You guys are at arms length away from these poor people and the Black church is right in the middle of it. As a result, you all have different perspectives on how the problem of the poor should be handled. And this is a lot of why their is a schism between Black and White fundamentalist/evangelical types.
Your implication that we just supply the money is wrong. Who do you think operates these ministries?
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Old 02-11-2024, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,124 posts, read 23,785,288 times
Reputation: 32521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
Your implication that we just supply the money is wrong. Who do you think operates these ministries?
Perhaps it is a lure?
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Old 02-11-2024, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,717 posts, read 13,262,632 times
Reputation: 9708
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
This reminds me very much of what happened at the school where I was principal. Our school boundary was mostly solid middle class to upper class (with one small area that was quite poor). One year our PTA came and said that they wanted to do a drive to collect things that a local homeless shelter could use...which was quite a surprise. I had an idea how it would go down, but I not only gave my permission, but also supported their efforts, and they took in a truly significant amount of appropriate clothing items, canned goods, and other necessities that homeless shelter people could use. And then, when they were finished, they came to me and said, "Okay, Mr. Victor, you can deliver the stuff to the homeless shelter now". Part of the reason was that they wanted to use my van for delivery, which was fine. But when I said, "Well, we can use my van, but I need to see some of you and some of your children helping when we arrive at the shelter", I thought they were going to have a collective stroke. "We can't go there around those people!" "Well, then I guess all that stuff won't ever get to the shelter". After much angst, one parent finally said, "Okay, my daughter and I will volunteer", and then a couple more did. But, as you point out, they wanted to do good, but at arm's length.
Lol ... yeah I saw a fair bit of this back in the day too. Way back in Bible Institute I got roped into playing piano for a prison church service and at first I didn't understand why they seemed to have a hard time finding a musician but I understood once I got there (keep in mind I was pretty naive, just 17). It was a completely intimidating experience to go in and have electric cage door after door close behind you and then your audience was a bunch of "street" black guys who looked like they would as soon kill you as look at you, and yeah ... I understand the arm's length sentiment, lol. The difference is I was *just* idealistic enough to take a deep breath and overcome the culture shock. Now, 40 years later I'm married to a woman who was in the first batch of white kids bussed into black schools in Berkeley ... she's as tough as I used to be naive, and finds my story hilarious.
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