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Old 02-13-2024, 11:40 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,056 posts, read 18,223,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
You've done it again. And, you're wrong again. Because somebody thinks that one point or another from one of the Gospels may not be 100% accurate does NOT mean that the entirety of the Gospels is rejected. For example, many scholars think that the last few verses of Mark were added later. Rejecting that [strange] passage does not mean that the book of Matthew is garbage.




Some things in the Gospels are known to be true in the sense that place names are confirmed. If you know some of the events are confirmed to have taken place, please post your sources. I'm curious how an event was confirmed.



No, that's not how discussion forums work. If you expect too be taken seriously, post your sources. So far, it looks like you make stuff up, post it and then ignore comments.

You say you want others to see what you see, but you offer nothing to facilitate that.

<<snip>>
This site offers a lot of scholarly information on origins of the gospels.
It's a good starting place with lots of other links.


https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/q.html
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Old 02-13-2024, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,765 posts, read 24,261,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalove View Post
However, one can't use the Gospels as evidence since that is circular reasoning. You're using the result as the source, which doesn't provide "proof" of anything.
His 'strong basis for believing' is that he believes.
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Old 02-13-2024, 12:32 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,056 posts, read 18,223,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalove View Post
However, one can't use the Gospels as evidence since that is circular reasoning. You're using the result as the source, which doesn't provide "proof" of anything.
Well it is if you believe the Bible is literal and factual.
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Old 02-13-2024, 04:15 PM
 
7,320 posts, read 4,115,298 times
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This thread could be linked to MissKate's "Can one be a Christian and not assemble?" For one reason, when you have a spiritual leader/minister/priest/clergy/etc. you are less likely to lose the thread of your thoughts/beliefs. A spiritual leader would rein in speculation.
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Old 02-13-2024, 04:36 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,056 posts, read 18,223,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
This thread could be linked to MissKate's "Can one be a Christian and not assemble?" For one reason, when you have a spiritual leader/minister/priest/clergy/etc. you are less likely to lose the thread of your thoughts/beliefs. A spiritual leader would rein in speculation.
In western religion they tell you what to think.

In eastern religion they tell you to think.
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Old 02-13-2024, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,765 posts, read 24,261,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
In western religion they tell you what to think.

In eastern religion they tell you to think.
I think that's very true. Certainly been my experience in Buddhism.
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Old 02-13-2024, 07:00 PM
 
19,014 posts, read 27,562,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
This thread could be linked to MissKate's "Can one be a Christian and not assemble?" For one reason, when you have a spiritual leader/minister/priest/clergy/etc. you are less likely to lose the thread of your thoughts/beliefs. A spiritual leader would rein in speculation.
You are up to something.
Spiritual guru presence, physical presence, has direct influence on minds.
When guru passes, you have a brief leftover of that force in his adepts but, even in them, it weathers away quickly and the next generation simply looks at footprints in the sand, slowly washed away by the waves of time.
This is why Eastern gurus went to great lengths to find a proper heir to their teaching. It took Milarepa 25 years to find Meropa and bestow his teaching onto him.
What did Jesus leave behind? A bunch of doubtful Thomases? An apostle, that never met him in person yet, built his church?
Right.
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Old 02-13-2024, 07:01 PM
 
19,014 posts, read 27,562,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
In western religion they tell you what to think.

In eastern religion they tell you to think.
Truly, they tell you how to abandon thinking at all.
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Old 02-13-2024, 08:42 PM
 
63,778 posts, read 40,038,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Wrong, the gospels could still be complete fiction while mentioning historical people and places.
Napoleon existing and capturing Moscow does not make War and Peace true, nor does it mean Pierre existed.
Yet there are too many relevant historians who say they reason to doubt. We can ignore the apologists who ignore evidence they do not like, and use bad methods not used in other fields of history.
There is great evidence that Mark was invented by a Greek speaking, well educated person, using sources such as Homer and the OT. That it sometimes used Aramaic does not mean there was an Aramaic source.
As my ancestors once said, "If".
But if Matthew and Luke are not independent (and they are not), and we know early Christians invented gospels (we have over 40 of them), then that increases the chances our gospels are also invented. Also, John certainly knew Luke, his Lazarus story was invented to correct Luke's.
And considering John was still being updated around 200 AD (Tertullian said his version ended with chapter 20), and Luke using Josephus, that still means the gospels are late.
I am enjoying your very sophisticated and educated modern minds grappling with these ancient recordings. What we can say about them is that they recorded some rather extraordinary events and a very extraordinary man. His existence and impact on the world should not be discounted, marginalized, or minimized simply because the recordings were written and embellished by very unsophisticated, not very educated or nuanced primitive minds of unverifiable provenance, IMO. They are what they are and they wrote the way they wrote back then for reasons only they know. To pretend that such extraordinary impact and endurance has been the result of pure fiction requires a far more skeptical and cynical mind than I have.
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Old 02-13-2024, 10:20 PM
 
18,249 posts, read 16,904,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
This site offers a lot of scholarly information on origins of the gospels.
It's a good starting place with lots of other links.


https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/q.html

Good site.
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