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Old 02-16-2024, 10:13 AM
 
63,779 posts, read 40,038,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalove View Post
Not to be snarky, but what is the value/point in discussing your completely fabricated ideas about the so-called "historical' Jesus? Anyone could make up their own stories as well, as was likely done over the centuries.
What is the alternative since ALL such thoughts about God are of the same character?
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Old 02-16-2024, 10:32 AM
 
63,779 posts, read 40,038,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
.
So, from what I understand, and what I believe, and what I completely made up , what can be gleaned from my "Historical Jesus"

From what I gather, this is what Jesus taught.

Number One:

He preached a similar message to John, speaking concerning the arrival of the Kingdom of Heaven. He taught this kingdom would first be given (or first be seen by) to the poor in spirit. Jesus said happy are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. So in essence Jesus pointed to the poor and downhearted, the bottom of society, as being much better off in the long run than the rich, and the kings and queens of the world. So basically if you are poor, if you are mourning, if you are agonizing for right living to be rewarded, you are living the good life. Because the Kingdom is for you. Now the question I have with this, is this a unique teaching? Are there any other religious figures out there that taught something similar to this? (Basically its a good thing to be downtrodden)

Number Two:

The Historical Jesus taught to leave everything behind for the sake of the Kingdom. You see the Kingdom of God/Heaven can ultimately be seen as Yahweh's will. So the works of the Kingdom would take priority, over family and friends, over even an individual's own free will. So what are the works of the Kingdom? Its hard to say for sure in terms of the Historical Jesus, but painting a picture from the NT it had a lot to do with grace and mercy to others, even to one's own enemies.

Again the Kingdom is seen as God's will, and it was to take priority over everything else. All those who follow God's will and pursue His kingdom, they would become your new family. I mentioned how Jesus Himself would have left His family behind and pursue the Kingdom Himself, being the first example of His teaching. In all the Gospels we see tension between His brothers, and even His mother. We have the time Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem around the age of 12, and His parents anxiously searched for Him. When they found Him, He explained He was about His Father's (God) business and in His house. At that time, Jesus submitted Himself to His parents. Then in John's Gospel while at a wedding, Mary told Jesus they were about to run out of wine. Jesus responded and told her what that had to do with Him. While both of these examples fall outside the Historical Jesus inquiry, it just shows us the kind of tension Jesus had with His family because He wanted to be about the business of the Kingdom of Heaven. (and His family was just living an ordinary family's life)

So what do you think of this? Should Jesus be respected in His dedication to the works and message of the Kingdom? Do you think it was a respectable thing to leave family behind, and embrace outsiders, even enemies?

So again these are my thoughts, completely made up by me concerning the Historical Jesus. What do you think about these things? Let's discuss!!!
I would take issue with your assertion that is all about God's WILL! It is all about God's SPIRIT (Holy Spirit, specifically) as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross in the narrative, IMO. Everything can be derived and inferred from the Holy Spirit that we immature Spirits are to emulate as much as possible as we mature (without getting too uptight over our failures, especially at a young age).
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Old 02-16-2024, 11:15 AM
 
2,411 posts, read 1,443,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalove View Post
Not to be snarky, but what is the value/point in discussing your completely fabricated ideas about the so-called "historical' Jesus? Anyone could make up their own stories as well, as was likely done over the centuries.
I'm just looking for discussion. There are people who are Christian that would find these thoughts interesting I believe. Also, there are many former Christians who may find this interesting. Seeing Jesus' teachings from a historical perspective, and what that looks like if He Himself didn't claim to be the Messiah and the Son of God.

The doctrine of the Kingdom of Heaven also speaks to the TaNaK. So this would be the Historical Jesus' interpretation of Scripture. So there might be something for those observant of the Law to discuss here. I also want to compare what I wrote, to the teachings of other religious figures. Did Jesus teach a similar message, or is His unique? I think its unique.

Last edited by Heavenese; 02-16-2024 at 11:34 AM..
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Old 02-16-2024, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,126 posts, read 10,426,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
I'm just looking for discussion. There are people who are Christian that would find these thoughts interesting I believe. Also, there are many former Christians who may find this interesting. Seeing Jesus' teachings from a historical perspective, and what that looks like if He Himself didn't claim to be the Messiah and the Son of God.

The doctrine of the Kingdom of Heaven also speaks to the TaNaK. So this would be the Historical Jesus' interpretation of Scripture. So there might be something for those observant of the Law to discuss here. I also want to compare what I wrote, to the teachings of other religious figures. Did Jesus teach a similar message, or is His unique? I think its unique.
What Jesus said was unique in teaching mysteries of what had already been said. Messiah comes teaching the secrets of Torah and his years are 2000 years.

Christian's read Mstthew 24 and the book of Revelation as some new thing or prophesy of the future never been told, but all of Matthew 24 and all the book of Revelation is strictly based on what is said and done by priests and by congregation during 7 feasts of Messiah within 2 seasons that make up 3 harvests.

By some great unknown force or miracle or by some very evil spirit, Christian's have been convinced to make learning about Jesus Taboo. One would think an evil spirit couldnt have that much effect on people who claim to love Jesus but there it is, you go into a Christian forum teaching the 7 feasts of Messiah and Christian's think you are evil to bring up such taboos as if every Christian's has been decieved.

Every Christian forum wants to discuss Mattew 24 or the book of Revelation, but these things are literally about the wheat harvest ending the first season going into Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, and Shemini Atzeret which is taboo for the Christian to study, after all, they teach of the second coming of Messiah, and so they act as if Mattew 24 and the book of Revelarion is some new thing in the world.

It doesnt make any sense, and standing outside the box, one would think it curious how Christian's have become so anti Jesus to put their head in the sand pretending there is no information.

It's hard for me to understand, and if Christian's dont want to study the foundations of the parables, the book of Revelation and Matthew 24, then OMG, why do they keep guessing as if it's a guessing game?

That is just how strong the spirit of anti Semitism is, since the Jews follow God's worship system, Christian's arent allowed to even study the ways of God.

If somebody wanted to prove historical Jesus, it's in the teachings.

Somebody sure knew the secrets.

Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 02-16-2024 at 01:06 PM..
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Old 02-16-2024, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Virginia
10,089 posts, read 6,420,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What is the alternative since ALL such thoughts about God are of the same character?
Well, in most cases it leads to people simply promulgating their own theories and trying to promote them over other peoples', so it seems more diplomatic (and a lot more peaceful) to just keep them to oneself. The same applies to the myriad discussions on the Christianity forum, where posters seem to disagree more than they agree, and consequently bludgeon each other with scripture to prove that they're "right" in their viewpoint/opinion.
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Old 02-16-2024, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Virginia
10,089 posts, read 6,420,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
I'm just looking for discussion. There are people who are Christian that would find these thoughts interesting I believe. Also, there are many former Christians who may find this interesting. Seeing Jesus' teachings from a historical perspective, and what that looks like if He Himself didn't claim to be the Messiah and the Son of God.

The doctrine of the Kingdom of Heaven also speaks to the TaNaK. So this would be the Historical Jesus' interpretation of Scripture. So there might be something for those observant of the Law to discuss here. I also want to compare what I wrote, to the teachings of other religious figures. Did Jesus teach a similar message, or is His unique? I think its unique.
You're assuming that Jesus' "interpretation" of Scripture (of which we have no direct record, btw; none of Jesus' words were ever recorded in situ), has some significance for the Jews. It doesn't. However, if you like discussing hypothetical scenarios regarding his teachings, may it be fulfilling to you.
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Old 02-16-2024, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,126 posts, read 10,426,638 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
I'm just looking for discussion. There are people who are Christian that would find these thoughts interesting I believe. Also, there are many former Christians who may find this interesting. Seeing Jesus' teachings from a historical perspective, and what that looks like if He Himself didn't claim to be the Messiah and the Son of God.

The doctrine of the Kingdom of Heaven also speaks to the TaNaK. So this would be the Historical Jesus' interpretation of Scripture. So there might be something for those observant of the Law to discuss here. I also want to compare what I wrote, to the teachings of other religious figures. Did Jesus teach a similar message, or is His unique? I think its unique.
What did you mean by," Those observant to the law?"

You didn't mean Jews right?
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Old 02-16-2024, 02:56 PM
 
2,411 posts, read 1,443,647 times
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Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
What did you mean by," Those observant to the law?"

You didn't mean Jews right?

Those who practice Judaism.
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Old 02-16-2024, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,126 posts, read 10,426,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Those who practice Judaism.
You mean Gentile Christian's who practice Messianic Judaism like me of course, not observant Jews right.
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Old 02-16-2024, 03:33 PM
 
2,411 posts, read 1,443,647 times
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Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
You mean Gentile Christian's who practice Messianic Judaism like me of course, not observant Jews right.
Everyone who observes the Torah.
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