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I just watched the video. It was inappropriate behavior, particularly demonstrated by the FACT that the deceased was an outspoken atheist. These people were putting on a show, and it had nothing to do with catholic beliefs and principles. On the other hand, whomever in the church approved this to begin with certainly didn't do their homework.
Weird to see a bunch of NYC-area atheists so consumed with transphobia (obviously, this thread must've initially been posted in the New York City forum?). With the way transgenderism works up people, you'd think 50% of the population were trans. Even in NYC, trans issues are a complete non-factor in the average person's life, and I fail to see why this is such a hot button culture war issue. Much ado about basically nothing
As for the story itself, I have no interest and no comment. I only care about the strong reactions it provoked in others. One tangential question that does arise in my mind is: were I to die prematurely, would my religious family hold my funeral at a Catholic church, even though I deconverted 18 years ago and am an atheist? I don't know, and it ultimately doesn't matter. But it's slightly more interesting to ponder that than it is to pay these people any attention
......When you consider the Church has allowed funerals for Mafia types (including full masses) who in their lifetimes killed, were whoremasters, and otherwise pretty much repeatedly committed mortal sins, one for a trans seems like small beer.
Not so fast paesano, Big Paul Castellano was murdered and the Archdiocese of New York refused to grant him a Catholic funeral, citing his notorious life and death.
John Gotti was also denied permission to hold a funeral Mass by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn.
Can you provide examples that support your statement?
I never understood why people that aren't part of a church think the church owes them something.
My understanding was that the deceased was Catholic and desired a Catholic funeral. The deceased's friends requested it at this cathedral. The local clergy found out the person was trans and declined to provide full honors / ceremonies on that basis. So it wasn't a question of the person not being part of the church, but not in good standing according to the church's beliefs.
So what I don't understand is why people continue to be part of a church that doesn't respect or fully accept them and then are surprised when said church behaves badly around that.
Well ... I understand it on one level: you want to maintain the traditions and rituals and customs and culture that you have already imprinted on. But sadly, there's a price to pay for going against the dogma, however silly you might imagine it to be. You might lose the support and kind regard of church, even family. It happens to all sorts of people -- LGBTQ, atheists, people who develop an odd hill to die on like favoring the wrong form of baptism -- you name it.
Weird to see a bunch of NYC-area atheists so consumed with transphobia (obviously, this thread must've initially been posted in the New York City forum?). With the way transgenderism works up people, you'd think 50% of the population were trans. Even in NYC, trans issues are a complete non-factor in the average person's life, and I fail to see why this is such a hot button culture war issue. Much ado about basically nothing
As for the story itself, I have no interest and no comment. I only care about the strong reactions it provoked in others. One tangential question that does arise in my mind is: were I to die prematurely, would my religious family hold my funeral at a Catholic church, even though I deconverted 18 years ago and am an atheist? I don't know, and it ultimately doesn't matter. But it's slightly more interesting to ponder that than it is to pay these people any attention
I have a trans granddaughter. I'll admit it didn't touch my personal life until that was revealed last year. But I take your point: LGBTW people represent about 7% of the population, whereas most 'Muricans think it's closer to 25% (the average of man-on-the-street estimates, per Gallup, being 23.6%). I would imagine trans people are a small fraction of 1%.
But the pearl-clutching of people about this reflects slippery-slope concerns and irrational beliefs about recruitment or corruption of "innocent" / straight young people.
In my moral worldview transvestism/autogynephilia is a psychosexual disorder, not a sin. The offense is in seeking to force a private delusion upon society by political and cultural normalization under the cloak of 'civil rights'.
Those who support such activists are not truly well-meaning because their motives are political and authoritarian, not humanitarian.
My understanding was that the deceased was Catholic and desired a Catholic funeral. The deceased's friends requested it at this cathedral. The local clergy found out the person was trans and declined to provide full honors / ceremonies on that basis. So it wasn't a question of the person not being part of the church, but not in good standing according to the church's beliefs.
So what I don't understand is why people continue to be part of a church that doesn't respect or fully accept them and then are surprised when said church behaves badly around that.
Well ... I understand it on one level: you want to maintain the traditions and rituals and customs and culture that you have already imprinted on. But sadly, there's a price to pay for going against the dogma, however silly you might imagine it to be. You might lose the support and kind regard of church, even family. It happens to all sorts of people -- LGBTQ, atheists, people who develop an odd hill to die on like favoring the wrong form of baptism -- you name it.
I can claim to be Baptist all I want, but I do not believe that some day when I kick the bucket that my loved ones should go to the local Baptist church in some other city and demand a funeral to their expectations.
It's obvious the deceased wasn't an active Catholic, nor was he/she a part of this local parish.
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^^^^ This. The bold is a very slippery slope.