Can someone point to a single document , article or hint that the founders saw the U.S.as a Christian nation.
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The US was founded on principles of the "Enlightenment," with some organization principles from the Freemason Constitutions, and a legal system based on English common law and the Magna Carta.
I don't know what "Christian Principles" you think were used to found the country.
It is crystal clear that the Founders established this nation in conformance with Christian principles, even as they had the wisdom and foresight not to require anyone to practice Christianity who did not choose to do so.
In the the Virginia Declaration of Rights, George Mason wrote the following about religion, protecting religious liberty, but note also his reference to "Christian forbearance, Love and Charity towards Each other." He cited Christianity, not the Masonic bylaws.
"That as Religion, or the Duty which we owe to our divine and omnipotent Creator, and the Manner of discharging it, can be governed only by Reason and Conviction, not by Force or Violence; and therefore that all Men shou’d enjoy the fullest Toleration in the Exercise of Religion, according to the Dictates of Conscience, unpunished and unrestrained by the Magistrate, unless, under Colour of Religion, any Man disturb the Peace, the Happiness, or Safety of Society, or of Individuals. And that it is the mutual Duty of all, to practice Christian forbearance, Love and Charity towards Each other."
How about John Adams? He literally states that Christian principles were among the bases for the Founding.
The general Principles, on which the Fathers Achieved Independence, were the only Principles in which, that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their Address, or by me in my Answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all those Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities Sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.
Seems to me there is a similarity in both places in that it was a refuge for those who wanted to practice religion without persecution. US stayed a secular democracy. Is Israel not a Jewish theocracy by choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
That is not the point of this thread, I don't think. It is whether the founders saw the U.S.as a Christian nation. Yes, and it still is. The nation is of the people and the people are mostly Christian.
As a comparison, and not to slide into off-topic discussion, Israel is in both intent and purpose a Jewish State. It is not clear to me what that means, if not a theocracy.
No, Israel is NOT a theocracy. Sounds like it would be helpful to actually know that basic piece of information, as post above indicates they are "not clear" on what a theocracy is. There are 6 theocracies in the world. None of them are Jewish. None of them are Israel. In fact, 84% of the theocracies in the world are Muslim.
Afghanistan - MUSLIM
Iran - MUSLIM
Mauritania - MUSLIM
Saudi Arabia - MUSLIM
Vatican City - CHRISTIAN
Yemen - MUSLIM
feel free to carry on discussion around concerns over "theocracy" countries, but how about using examples of actual theocracies from the six countries listed. And to remedy the not knowing what a theocracy is, the link above describes that. Learning happens!
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-02-2024 at 08:33 PM..
Data shows that 40% of countries in the world favor a specific religion either officially (state religion) or as a preferred religion. There are over 80 countries which favor a specific religion, either as an official, government-endorsed religion or by affording one religion preferential treatment over other faiths. Islam is the most common state religion, but many governments give privileges to Christianity.
Official, endorsed by gov't Islam is the most common government-endorsed faith, with 27 countries officially enshrining Islam as their state religion. By comparison, just 13 countries designate Christianity .
Unofficial, favored, preferred
But an additional 40 countries around the globe unofficially favor a particular religion, and in most cases the preferred faith is a branch of Christianity, with 28 countries favoring Christinaity, more than any other unofficial but favored faith.
Pew data, 2017 Many Countries Favor Specific Religions, Officially or Unofficially:
It is also interesting to note that there are 3 religions in the world which overwhelmingly live in countries where they are the majority.
Fully 97% of all Hindus live in the world’s 3 Hindu-majority countries.
Nearly 87% of Christians live in the world’s 157 Christian-majority countries.
And 73% of Muslims live in the 49 Muslim-majority countries.
Most members of the other major religious groups live in countries in which they are in the minority.
For instance only 28% of Buddhists live in the 7 countries where Buddhists are majority.
And there is only one country with a Jewish majority, and that is Israel. There are no countries where members of other religions (such as Baha’i, Jain, Shinto, Sikh, Taoist, Tenrikyo, Wiccan, Zoroastrian, or folk traditional) make up a majority of the population.
And to put that in perspective
There are:
2.2 billion Christians (32% of world population)
1.6 billion Muslims (23% of world population)
1 billion Hindus (15% of world population)
500 million Buddhists (7% of world population)
and 14 million Jews (0.2% of world population)
So that gives readers a bit of perspective on how many countries have a religious majority. And which religions overwhelmingly form those majorities. And how big each of these groups are.
Regardless of the timeline or who authored it, US seems a Christian nation. I am not making any claim, just what I observe. It is secular in the sense that Christianity does not dictate laws, but certainly it influences them, as the recent developments regarding women's health shows. And that is only one.
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says that the country shall have no official religion.
Yes. And it is interesting to note that in expanding the thread topic from "USA as a Christian nation" they have singled out the single lone one tiny Jewish state in the world. Which of course is NOT a theocracy. While failing to mention at all the 49 countries in the world which are Muslim majority. Including five actual theocracies which are Muslim.
There are six actual theocractic countries in the world. Note that none of them are Jewish. And none of them are Israel. In fact 84% of the theocracies in the world are ISLAMIC
Afghanistan - MUSLIM
Iran - MUSLIM
Mauritania - MUSLIM
Saudi Arabia - MUSLIM
Vatican City - CHRISTIAN
Yemen - MUSLIM
It is crystal clear that the Founders established this nation in conformance with Christian principles, even as they had the wisdom and foresight not to require anyone to practice Christianity who did not choose to do so.
In the the Virginia Declaration of Rights, George Mason wrote the following about religion, protecting religious liberty, but note also his reference to "Christian forbearance, Love and Charity towards Each other." He cited Christianity, not the Masonic bylaws.
"That as Religion, or the Duty which we owe to our divine and omnipotent Creator, and the Manner of discharging it, can be governed only by Reason and Conviction, not by Force or Violence; and therefore that all Men shou’d enjoy the fullest Toleration in the Exercise of Religion, according to the Dictates of Conscience, unpunished and unrestrained by the Magistrate, unless, under Colour of Religion, any Man disturb the Peace, the Happiness, or Safety of Society, or of Individuals. And that it is the mutual Duty of all, to practice Christian forbearance, Love and Charity towards Each other."
How about John Adams? He literally states that Christian principles were among the bases for the Founding.
The general Principles, on which the Fathers Achieved Independence, were the only Principles in which, that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their Address, or by me in my Answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all those Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities Sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.
It is crystal clear that the Founders established this nation in conformance with Christian principles, even as they had the wisdom and foresight not to require anyone to practice Christianity who did not choose to do so.
In the the Virginia Declaration of Rights, George Mason wrote the following about religion, protecting religious liberty, but note also his reference to "Christian forbearance, Love and Charity towards Each other." He cited Christianity, not the Masonic bylaws.
Virginia is not the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin
"That as Religion, or the Duty which we owe to our divine and omnipotent Creator, and the Manner of discharging it, can be governed only by Reason and Conviction, not by Force or Violence; and therefore that all Men shou’d enjoy the fullest Toleration in the Exercise of Religion, according to the Dictates of Conscience, unpunished and unrestrained by the Magistrate, unless, under Colour of Religion, any Man disturb the Peace, the Happiness, or Safety of Society, or of Individuals. And that it is the mutual Duty of all, to practice Christian forbearance, Love and Charity towards Each other."
How about John Adams? He literally states that Christian principles were among the bases for the Founding.
The general Principles, on which the Fathers Achieved Independence, were the only Principles in which, that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their Address, or by me in my Answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all those Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities Sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.
It is interesting in his letter (not an official government document) that he mentions atheists in that group of 'beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen'. He also mentions Votaire, who thought Christianity 'la plus ridicule, la plus absurde, et la plus sanguinaire' (the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and the most bloody) religion.
So what principles did Adams mean? Principles also shared by Christianity? If yes, then he is referring to good principles, not any specific to Christianity. And are there any specific to Christianity other than to believe things about Jesus?
Christian forbearance? It was not in the original Christianity? Charity, love? Not Christian.
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