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But the problem is with the faiths in God we share. Is peace to these faiths ever such a virtue to behold? I know in my Catholic religion that the virtues are forever to hope for peace, to believe that we can do something that cares for the sense of peaceful belonging, really the virtue of Love is so particularly different for all religions. Philosophically it is different for the ethics to love than socially (ontologically) it is the different love of recognition in the World for nihilism, humanism, positivism, or even Socialism.
Kris (shalom)
Well as in any Faith in a being greater than ourselves, I just dont think its a matter of what " We Do", because we are limited and can only " Do" so much. Because if we base faith on what we do, then how much do we have to do, because a careful examination of human history, simply reveals we may have not done enough. Then how much really is enough.
And then also I think you are correct, Faith differes from religion to religion, who's faith is sufficent? Who has the best view of God? Who really knows God? All these are based or centered on the human, which I think is the problem. If the focus is on human Faith, human Love, human response or reaction, then we just have far too much error involved to get a clear picture.
For example, my views hold too much error, so I don't seek to elevate my views above anyone, because I would be elevating error. But some people just don't get that, so they elevate themselves, thinking their Faith, their Love, their belief, is a good example of Gods. No, its not a good example, its just amoung the only " Living examples" that we have. And those examples of human performance has been insufficent to save ALL of humanity. But humans just Love to elevate themselves.
The beginning of Understanding God, is the wisdom NOT to elevate anything human, outside of Jesus. And even Jesus didnot elevate himself, he let God do that for him.
When human Love and human faith, are the best examples that we use, those examples are faulty at best.
There is an issue though that i thought about so much, In the holy Qur'an there is a balance in speech bet. mentioning paradise and joy in the after life, and hell and torture for sinners, etc. I always asked myself why?
I found that holy Qur'an replied to this by mentioning in meaning that the threaten of torture for sinners is to make them repent and keep away from what God dislikes. So this threatening speech is because God loves us, He wants us to earn paradise by His mercy.
I found that His justice requires that sinners who persist to major sins till death must be punished in hell to be purified in order to earn the right for paradise afterwards.
Also a personal thought that from His justice is that eternal hell is for human devils who have no single atom of good in their hearts, to be eternal in hell doing all their sins there and living the kind of life they chose, and so torturing each other and killing each other over and over again, they can't live in paradise cause they'll hate it, they can't be thankful towards God a single second, so paradise is worse than hell to them.
May God have mercy on any person with one atom of good in his heart, amin.
peace
Last edited by mahmoud mrt; 06-17-2008 at 04:10 AM..
There is an issue though that i thought about so much, In the holy Qur'an there is a balance in speech bet. mentioning paradise and joy in the after life, and hell and torture for sinners, etc. I always asked myself why?
I found that holy Qur'an replied to this by mentioning in meaning that the threaten of torture for sinners is to make them repent and keep away from what God dislikes. So this threatening speech is because God loves us, He wants us to earn paradise by His mercy.
I found that His justice requires that sinners who persist to major sins till death must be punished in hell to be purified in order to earn the right for paradise afterwards.
Also a personal thought that from His justice is that eternal hell is for human devils who have no single atom of good in their hearts, to be eternal in hell doing all their sins there and living the kind of life they chose, and so torturing each other and killing each other over and over again, they can't live in paradise cause they'll hate it, they can't be thankful towards God a single second, so paradise is worse than hell to them.
May God have mercy on any person with one atom of good in his heart, amin.
peace
Well I disagree with the belief in an eternal punishing hell, which is one reason why I cannot be Christian. I believe in God with all my heart, and Jesus Christ, but I refuse to believe that God would place unbelieving humans inside of an eternal pain amplifier and keep them conscious in misery for all of eternity. In my view, that is insanity. The God I have read about in the bible would do no such thing.
This hell doctrine is one reason I prefer to walk alone in my belief of God. I have examined this horrible belief and something is seriously wrong with it. Eternity is longer than 999,999 trillion billion years times infinity. No human could suffer just 1,000 years of conscious torture without going insane from the terror, and no righteous God could inflict such misery, and be called Good or merciful. There is no possible way for God to Co-exist with such insanity.
Well I disagree with the belief in an eternal punishing hell, which is one reason why I cannot be Christian. I believe in God with all my heart, and Jesus Christ, but I refuse to believe that God would place unbelieving humans inside of an eternal pain amplifier and keep them conscious in misery for all of eternity. In my view, that is insanity. The God I have read about in the bible would do no such thing.
This hell doctrine is one reason I prefer to walk alone in my belief of God. I have examined this horrible belief and something is seriously wrong with it. Eternity is longer than 999,999 trillion billion years times infinity. No human could suffer just 1,000 years of conscious torture without going insane from the terror, and no righteous God could inflict such misery, and be called Good or merciful. There is no possible way for God to Co-exist with such insanity.
Peace.
Please don't give up on Christianity. I am a Christian, I've read my Bible, and I do not find that it teaches about an eternal tormenting hell.
Please don't give up on Christianity. I am a Christian, I've read my Bible, and I do not find that it teaches about an eternal tormenting hell.
Well good for you, its a horrible doctrine to believe in. But you have no need to be concerned with me, Salvation is not based on Christianity, its based on God. I am in no manner giving up on God and my Love for Jesus Christ. Christianity is not God or Christ, its a label for followers of Christ, and I am not in need of that label. Christianity does not hold a monopoly on God.
Well I disagree with the belief in an eternal punishing hell, which is one reason why I cannot be Christian. I believe in God with all my heart, and Jesus Christ, but I refuse to believe that God would place unbelieving humans inside of an eternal pain amplifier and keep them conscious in misery for all of eternity. In my view, that is insanity. The God I have read about in the bible would do no such thing.
This hell doctrine is one reason I prefer to walk alone in my belief of God. I have examined this horrible belief and something is seriously wrong with it. Eternity is longer than 999,999 trillion billion years times infinity. No human could suffer just 1,000 years of conscious torture without going insane from the terror, and no righteous God could inflict such misery, and be called Good or merciful. There is no possible way for God to Co-exist with such insanity.
Peace.
Remember, not all Christians believe in a fiery tormenting hell. I absolutely do not. And I agree one hundred percent that God would never allow eternal misery. And I am not walking alone in that belief...there are at least 7 million members of my faith that agree.
There are so many things that I am " Beginning to Do", its just to long to list. But where God is concerned, I have been " Beginning to Understand him" for quite some time now. I haven't got pass just Beginning to comprehend him. I began this most interesting and unusual journey, by really divorcing myself from the Traditional way of understanding God. I don't use books, other than the Bible itself, I don't need teachers and I don't adhere to churchs of any sort. And this is what works for me. I really am interested in comming to know God one day, I kind of look forward to it.
Yet I disagree with so much " Popular information about God out there." I just don't like what I hear comming out of people, so I tend to myself in this area. God does not talk to me, nor do I understand him like I truly want to, but I kind of " Know he is There." So I examine his word, and to my surprise, I Like it. I like God, although I do not know him. This whole " Spiritual Thing" kind of turns me on. And the Bible is unique to me, its message quite stimulating.
The beginning of understanding God is not quite like I thought it would be, but it is rather stimulating, unlike anythingelse I have experienced. I find God to be very stand offish, very hidden and very impersonal. All of which has surprised me. He comes and goes as he pleases, and does things according to his own ways and means, not mine. I can't seem to bargain with him, or manipulate him. And I have learned that I now cannot do without him.
I think God is quite mysterious and strange, and well worth the effort to get to know him. The beginning of Wisdom is quite Lonely and like nothingelse.
Peace.
The only way to understand GOD Is no hidden secret or mystery , it's so simple that even a child could comprehense it. Realize that GOD is LOVE so says the holy scriptures and study The Word Of GOD because that is the only way to Hear His VOICE buy a good concordance and find out what the ROOT HEBREW Words Are Saying To You....Study To Show Yourself Approve A Workman That Need Not Be Ashamed Rightfully Appling The Word Of GOD...
Well I disagree with the belief in an eternal punishing hell, which is one reason why I cannot be Christian. I believe in God with all my heart, and Jesus Christ, but I refuse to believe that God would place unbelieving humans inside of an eternal pain amplifier and keep them conscious in misery for all of eternity. In my view, that is insanity. The God I have read about in the bible would do no such thing.
This hell doctrine is one reason I prefer to walk alone in my belief of God. I have examined this horrible belief and something is seriously wrong with it. Eternity is longer than 999,999 trillion billion years times infinity. No human could suffer just 1,000 years of conscious torture without going insane from the terror, and no righteous God could inflict such misery, and be called Good or merciful. There is no possible way for God to Co-exist with such insanity.
Peace.
God won't be placing anyone in eternal hell, they will go there for rejecting Jesus, their choice.
God won't be placing anyone in eternal hell, they will go there for rejecting Jesus, their choice.
There is no such place as eternal hell, and I don't care how stupid a human could be in rejecting God, God willnot allow even those who reject him to go to some eternal lava lake to burn forever, such is a morbid belief from bloodthirsty people who believe it. The people who believe in hell, simply want and desire for unbelievers to go there. Its what THEY want God to do. Hell is as perverted a belief as I have ever studied.
IF God created such a place and put humans in it, there are several pervereted things he must do to the poor puny human super sufferers first, he must recreate their minds and give them super mental abilitys , in order for them to endure this great level of ultimate neverending horror. Their minds must be stronger than anything human, for they are to suffer constantly for trillions of billions of untold centuries, and the terror will not have even begun. He must give them the lungs of a human torch, in order for them to breathe fire. They must have the skin of superman , so that the flames will not totally destrot them. They must have the legs of the incredible hulk, if they must stand up for the rest of eternity. They must be able to stay awake and never need sleep, why would God torture someone who is not conscious, we want them to feel every second of it. We don't want any of ther poor puny sinners passing out on us, now would we.
Obviously these new super sufferers will be quite a formidable new creation, and might just get madd at God after 978, 999, 456, 497, 123 quadrillion years of this incredible misery, so we had better post a few legions of Angels on the perimeter of this hell, we wouldnot want any of these things getting out, now would we?
Any who believe that God would do these things, just really does not know God.
There is no such place as eternal hell, and I don't care how stupid a human could be in rejecting God, God willnot allow even those who reject him to go to some eternal lava lake to burn forever, such is a morbid belief from bloodthirsty people who believe it. The people who believe in hell, simply want and desire for unbelievers to go there. Its what THEY want God to do. Hell is as perverted a belief as I have ever studied.
IF God created such a place and put humans in it, there are several pervereted things he must do to the poor puny human super sufferers first, he must recreate their minds and give them super mental abilitys , in order for them to endure this great level of ultimate neverending horror. Their minds must be stronger than anything human, for they are to suffer constantly for trillions of billions of untold centuries, and the terror will not have even begun. He must give them the lungs of a human torch, in order for them to breathe fire. They must have the skin of superman , so that the flames will not totally destrot them. They must have the legs of the incredible hulk, if they must stand up for the rest of eternity. They must be able to stay awake and never need sleep, why would God torture someone who is not conscious, we want them to feel every second of it. We don't want any of ther poor puny sinners passing out on us, now would we.
Obviously these new super sufferers will be quite a formidable new creation, and might just get madd at God after 978, 999, 456, 497, 123 quadrillion years of this incredible misery, so we had better post a few legions of Angels on the perimeter of this hell, we wouldnot want any of these things getting out, now would we?
Any who believe that God would do these things, just really does not know God.
Peace.
Hell is a very real place, the Bible clearly teaches that. We all have a choice to make, accept or reject Jesus. And He loves enough to honor our choice, even if it's wrong. Matthew 7:12-13-14 " You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad and its gate is wide for the many who choose the easy way. But the gateway to life is small and the road is narrow and only a few ever find it".
Jude 1:7 "And don't forget the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring town, which were filled with sexual immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and are a warning of the eternal fire that will punish all who are evil".
Jesus believed in eternal hell, that's why He came and died a horrible death on the cross for all mankind.
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The Only Way To Understand GOD Is This......
