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Old 06-15-2008, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
713 posts, read 1,957,524 times
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There are many Biblical passages where Jesus says that He is God, but John 10:24-39 is one my favorite sections where Jesus makes His bold claim. The people even give a reason why they want Jesus dead!



24The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."

25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."

31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
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Old 06-15-2008, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
713 posts, read 1,957,524 times
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That was too much reading...

I will make it shorter:

"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
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Old 06-16-2008, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,536 posts, read 37,140,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperStar34 View Post
That was too much reading...

I will make it shorter:

"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Why do you ask the question when you already think you know the answer?
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
713 posts, read 1,957,524 times
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Because many people say that Jesus never claimed to be God. People also believe that Jews did not kill because he of his supposed blasphemy.

It's not for me, but for others to understand that 1) Jesus claimed to be God. 2) He was killed because He calimed to be God.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:47 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,216 posts, read 2,264,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperStar34 View Post
24The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."
well , my view is that they doubt of jesus in the first place to be the christ or not , the doubts here wasn't about any claims to be a God

they were waiting him , becuse he mentioned in old testament .

Quote:
25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."
he answered them that his miracles allready proofs that he is the christ , he didn't need to say it by tongue , his miracles did

Quote:
31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
is it logic for a God to say about himself that he did miracles ?
God created the universe , is it miracle of God or power of God

Quote:
33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
first of all it was the claims of jews , jesus didn't say it

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
secondly , they doupt that he is the christ , by the logic , if they accept him as a christ they supposed to follow him , what about if they didn't believe that he is the christ ? offcourse they will condemn him by blasphemy because of claiming about himself that he is a son of God (from my point of view son of God means prophet) so they considered him false prophet

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

so that jesus argued with them here by the logic , he said to them " if i dont works of my father" means if my work or my deed is evil and oppose to God's will so don't believe me or dont trust me

jesus continues saying " but if my work is rightious and my deeds is good , though you don't trust me as a prophet , so believe the works (off course he means his miracles) which witness for me that God with me and God supporting me , this is the proofs that i am truthfull prophet from God

i didn't try to correcting you , i respect your view anyway , just sharing with mine

Quote:
34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—
to understand this verse you must quote the verse before it
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

jews here claimed that he makest himself God (not claiming himself as God) because of his great miracles which is very special to god's power
but what was the respond of jesus (pbuh)?
he respond them from the old testament saying that it isn't written in it :" i have said you are Gods" . "I" refer to God here , so God didn't said about his prophets that they are gods , obviously he denying this claim (to be a God) from himself , and denying thier condemns by saying that it's impossible to call the prophets as Gods " to whom the word of God came ?" then

Last edited by elwill; 06-16-2008 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,579,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperStar34 View Post
Because many people say that Jesus never claimed to be God. People also believe that Jews did not kill because he of his supposed blasphemy.

It's not for me, but for others to understand that 1) Jesus claimed to be God. 2) He was killed because He calimed to be God.
Are you sure he claimed to be God? I see his claiming unity with God but never to I see his saying that he is God. As a matter of fact,it looks to me as if he is reprimanding them because they are accusing him of claiming equality.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
713 posts, read 1,957,524 times
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"I and the father are one"

"I give them eternal life"

"father is in me and I am in the father"


Not only do these verses that Jesus spoke make it clear that Jesus was claiming that He is God, it was also shows us that Jesus believed Heand God are the same person.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,579,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperStar34 View Post
"I and the father are one"

"I give them eternal life"

"father is in me and I am in the father"


Not only do these verses that Jesus spoke make it clear that Jesus was claiming that He is God, it was also shows us that Jesus believed Heand God are the same person.
Not at all. I have many times spoken of myself and my husband as one...so does the bible, incidentally. Yet when examining the context of those scriptures, I am relieved to see that I am not required to surgically meld myself w/my man but am simply to be unified with him...with one purpose and one goal in life.

After all, if you read the context of the above scriptures, does it not ALSO say that Christ was GIVEN the ability to grant eternal life by his father? And didnt he also say in John that it was important his apostles become one just as he and his father are one? He was, again, wanting them to be unified-correct?
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Old 06-16-2008, 08:58 PM
 
Location: God's Country
23,016 posts, read 34,383,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperStar34 View Post
"I and the father are one"

"I give them eternal life"

"father is in me and I am in the father"


Not only do these verses that Jesus spoke make it clear that Jesus was claiming that He is God, it was also shows us that Jesus believed Heand God are the same person.
AMEN! I believe the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God.
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
713 posts, read 1,957,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
Not at all. I have many times spoken of myself and my husband as one...so does the bible, incidentally. Yet when examining the context of those scriptures, I am relieved to see that I am not required to surgically meld myself w/my man but am simply to be unified with him...with one purpose and one goal in life.

After all, if you read the context of the above scriptures, does it not ALSO say that Christ was GIVEN the ability to grant eternal life by his father? And didnt he also say in John that it was important his apostles become one just as he and his father are one? He was, again, wanting them to be unified-correct?

Alice,


If only knew you, would I also know your husband?

NO, he is a complete different person. I may hear about him from you, but I would never actually know him.

In contrast, the relationship between Jesus and the Father as Jesus put it... "If you know Me, then you also know the Father."

The earthly relationship between a husband and wife and believers is quite different then the Father and Son.

The Father, and Son have always been together they never united at one point. They were all together during creation. As God states in Genesis: "Let US make man in OUR image."

The Bible speaks that human relationships such as marriage and with believers, should be unified but it clearly is not like the Father and Son.

The Father and Son can never get divorced : )
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