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Sanspeur was exactly right. The word rapture is not even in the Bible, it's an invention from the 1800's in Britain based on some mumblings of a Scottish school girl and became popularized by American evangelicals in recent years. It has no Biblical foundation or tradition and is largely the result of the marketing of books and bumper stickers.
Sanspeur was exactly right. The word rapture is not even in the Bible, it's an invention from the 1800's in Britain based on some mumblings of a Scottish school girl and became popularized by American evangelicals in recent years. It has no Biblical foundation or tradition and is largely the result of the marketing of books and bumper stickers.
Yes he is right, the word is not in the Bible, but I believe it has Biblical foundation. Bet you've even read some of the verses Montana, 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is one.
Sanspeur was exactly right. The word rapture is not even in the Bible, it's an invention from the 1800's in Britain based on some mumblings of a Scottish school girl and became popularized by American evangelicals in recent years. It has no Biblical foundation or tradition and is largely the result of the marketing of books and bumper stickers.
That's ludicrous. I already dealt with this issue earlier in this thread, reposted for your convenience.
Quote:
Ah, yes, the Barbara Rossing book called The Rapture Racket. This book was her response to the popular Left Behind series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B Jenkins. The problem is, she doesn't know much of anything about scripture or history.
Jesus said in John 14:1-3. “Let not your heart be troubled, you believe in God believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions. If it were not so I would not have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself”. That is the rapture. Also when He says “come up hither”, in Revelation 4:1.
The word "rapture" actually appears in the Catholic Bible. In the Latin Vulgate by Jerome who when he got to 1 Thessalonians 4:17 talks about the dead in Christ rising first and then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up with the dead to meet the Lord in the air. And there he used the word “rapiamore” – which is “raptured”.
In 1 Corinthians 15:51, Paul says, “Behold I show you a mystery”. A mystery is something that has not been revealed until this point in time so you won't find the rapture in the Old Testament or in most of the Gospels, but you can find it here. And then he describes it, “we shall not all sleep [or be dead]”, but we shall all [dead and living] be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump. For the trumpet shall sound and the dead will be raised incorruptible and we the living shall be changed.” It is that simple. He's going to change our corrupted bodies and make them like His glorious body. You can read that in Philippians 3:21. That's why we are to be looking for the Rapture and the Glorious Appearing - His revelation when He comes to earth.
Now, let's address that nutjob, Barbara Rossing. Her constant mentioning of the Rapture theory only beginning in 1830, which is the real racket. Why? It began WELL BEFORE 1830! I had to whip out historical references for this, but here's what history teaches:
In 150 AD, the Rapture idea was preached by the Shepherd of Hermas.
In 270 AD, Victorinus, the Bishop of Pettau, a Catholic leader preached it.
In 350 AD, Ephraim the Syrian
In 400 AD, Jerome in the Latin vulgate (in the Catholic Bible)
Then there were the 1,000 years of the dark ages, and then it came back.
In 1304 AD, Reverend Dolcino proclaimed the Pre-trib Rapture.
In 1400 AD, Bible translations in the native tongues led to a new propagation of the Pre-trib Rapture.
In 1627 AD, Joseph Mede
1627 AD Increase Mather
1687 AD, Peter Jurieu
1700 AD, John Asgill
1738 AD, Philip Doddridge
1748 AD, John Gill
1763 AD, James McKnight
1744 AD, Morgan Edwards
1792 AD, Thomas Scott
And then in 1830 AD, John Darby.
The rapture theory has been preached from 150 AD onward! What Barbara Rossing wrote is not the truth. Search out what history teaches. She is wrong, scripturally and historically.
I believe the book of Revelations is probably one of the most widely discussed and disputed texts of the entire Bible. And interpretations of this text are just as numerous. I have myself pondered this apocalyptic text over the course of my life and have come to believe that perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in the reading could be taking the words literally. If you give thought to the time when this text was written the people were still living in a relatively primitive society. If indeed visions were granted to John of the end times, he would have to put what he saw into words he could understand. Believers tend to believe that the time of the Tribulation is eminent and could come at any time in the near future. Well if so, then John could have seen visions of phenomena that did not yet occur in his day. For instance, when the second trumpet sounds a mountain is thrown into the sea. Now, if taken literally you would imagine an earth-bound mountain being flung into the sea. Could it not be that John was given a vision of a massive meteor hitting the earth. Or when the sixth trumpet sounds and the angels bound to the Euphrates are unleashed to kill a third of mankind. The description given is of mounted horsemen who spew fire, smoke, and sulfur from their mouths. Multi-colored breastplates and heads of lions. Maybe what he actually saw were Apaches and tanks, spitting fire and laying to waste a third of mankind. I just think it is entirely possible that the word we read will not literally come true exactly as written. Or maybe it won't happen at all. Who am I but another human being on a quest for truth and reason. Some would say that over thinking the Bible is trouble and you just got to have "faith" But human nature is to question and investigate and find the truth. And I think that any God up there would know that about his creations and provide some stretching room. To believe that all the good people in the world are condemned because they don't follow one specific set of rules seems rather unlikely. And the fact that a provision is provided only for the Jews seems pretty ludicrous as well. I am sure there may be some comments heading my way but that's cool. Feedback helps us learn, about ourselves and about our peers. Just remember you are talking to an over-thinker, who is caught in a place in life where he really doesn't know what he believes. All I can do is search and study and hope that some true revelation comes my way.
Two men walking up a hill
One disappears and ones left standing still
I wish we'd all been ready
Man and Wife asleep in bed
she hears a noise and turns her head
He's gone
I wish we'd all been ready
There's no time to change your mind
The son has come
and you've been left behind.......
Two men walking up a hill
One disappears and ones left standing still
I wish we'd all been ready
Man and Wife asleep in bed
she hears a noise and turns her head
He's gone
I wish we'd all been ready
There's no time to change your mind
The son has come
and you've been left behind.......
Thanks Larry Norman - see you in Heaven....
Ugh...Just the other day I was telling someone about this song. Clearly Larry does not read his Bible correctly because those verses (he bases this song on) are NOT speaking of any rapture.
Ugh...Just the other day I was telling someone about this song. Clearly Larry does not read his Bible correctly because those verses (he bases this song on) are NOT speaking of any rapture.
I disagree.
God took Noah away before the flood.
God took Lot and his family out of Soddom before the fire and brimstone came.
God will remove his bride (the church) before Armageddon.
God took Lot and his family out of Soddom before the fire and brimstone came.
God will remove his bride (the church) before Armageddon.
I'm not disagreeing with your concept. In some Christian circles that's their belief and with belief you can make up and believe anything by using "faith" and of course believe it as fact. I am referring to a basis some have used, as in this song, that when Jesus spoke about two women at a well and one will be taken while the other left refers to some rapture.
God took Lot and his family out of Soddom before the fire and brimstone came.
God will remove his bride (the church) before Armageddon.
Yes, God has a history of revealing things to His people before He does them. Just as in the cases you mentioned. He doesn't have to give any warning at all, He could do it all without warning or notice, but He doesn't. That's part of His grace and mercy.
The signs of the end times are all too clear and clearly being fulfilled in our time in history. Much more than at any other time in history. Some will see and hear the signs and accept them. Some won't. And some refuse to.
The Bible may not use the word "Rapture", but eveything points to it. It says that Jesus will come like a thief in the night - how would that be possible, if there were world war III raging and the Beast was out and about - eveyone would be looking for Jesus. He wouldn't be coming like a quiet, unexpected theif in the night.
But then, it talks about when he comes - every eye will see him - this is the moment after Armageddon - when Christ returns and EVERY EYE will see him.
So I believe that when Christ comes like a thief in the night - it is for his bride. Remember the story about the wise and foolish virigins, those who were ready and those who werent - how the bridegroom would come at a time not expected.......this again points to a Rapture.
I just think - God will not leave his Bride (The Church - not just churchgoers), behind to go through the Great Tribulation.
Also, the Rapture, would be such a huge event, it would make people so terrified - it would set the stage for the One World Leader to step forward and explain what had happened to all these people.
Also, if Christians were still around - when the beast started to rule the one world - they would point him out.
Lastly, the Bible speaks about something needing to be removed before the man of sin can be revealed. I believe as do many christians that this something is the Church.
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Interpretations!
