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If faith is a gift, does that mean that God is playing favorites, something that we, as reasonably decent human beings and parents, would frown on, and disagree with? After all, we generally "gift" our children as reasonably and as fairly the same as we can, do we not? Yet, only certain lucky people are gifted by God to have faith, which really is just a fundamentalist Christian's polite way of saying that they were smart enough to become Christians, while everyone else is a prideful dolt.
I believe in the Creator, but I long since gave up the idea that God is going to toss folks into an eternal hell, (yes, I know, "God doesn't throw people into hell; people put themselves there"), because they weren't smart enough, or "gifted" enough to accept Jesus, particularly those poor saps who never heard of Jesus, or the young kid who's hovering right on the brink of that magical "age of accountability", or the person who's never known anything but horrible abuse all of their life. Yet we are all supposed to know/recognize "Fatherly love", (complete with eternal punishment, stacked up against a mortal/finite life, for making the wrong choice, no less, though it is supposed to be a gift. Hmm...can we say "confusion", boys and girls?).
God doesn't force people accept the "gift"? Well, I don't force my children and grandchildren to accept gifts, either, but I don't threaten them with horrible punishment, if they choose to reject said gift. Good heavens! If we did to our children what God supposedly will do to other folks, for lack of belief, we would be locked up, at the least, and rightfully so. Talk about ungodly behaviour! And, if one would give the argument that God is entitled to act as he chooses, because he is God, well, that's a rather poor argument, needless to say. If God expects us to love unconditionally, and continually, (remember Peter's question about forgiveness? Jesus told him he must forgive "seventy times seven times"), then it stands to reason that he needs to set the example, the same as we are expected to do with our children. To say that one must choose Jesus, (during our very short lives), or suffer hell, (eternally!), is not a choice, no matter how the argument is given. That would be akin to a husband telling his wife that she must "choose" him, or she'll be thrown into a bonfire, over and over, no end in sight! A peculiar kind of love, that! Love cannot be forced, or else it is not love.
It was one of the best moments in my life when I finally and completely, let go of this idea that God is sitting around with a tally-book in his hand, like some cosmic Cowboy, running the herd through, writing down the names of those poor suckers who weren't smart enough to pick the "right" chute. I'm not constantly frightened for myself, my children, my family, my friends, etc. I can enjoy the life that my Creator has given me, to the very best of my ability. I've learned to look at other people, not as "poor unfortunate lost souls", but as people, in their own right, entitled to their own beliefs, without being told that not only are they wrong, but they are damned! I've learned to leave other folks alone, and allow them to live their own lives, and "work out their own salvation", as it were, according to their own beliefs. It's not my place, or my business to tell other folks how they should relate to their Creator, or even whether they should. Rather reminds me of an old Hank Williams song, in which he said that if we're minding our own business, we won't be busy minding someone else's.
For those Christians who are content, happy, and fulfilled in their walk with God, I say more power to you. If it brings you comfort and joy, that's wonderful! If going to church, and being fully involved in the same gives you what you need in your life, that's fine, (been there, done that, by the way). But, remember, just because it's the right way for you, doesn't mean it the right way for everyone else. It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp. Grown folks don't need you to lead them around by the hand, treating them as though they are foolish children, (the same idea used to witness to the Native Americans, and other indigenous peoples, I might add, with many disastrous results).
"God will understand, my lord. And, if he doesn't, then he is not God, and we need not worry".
CelticLady, Some very wise words here,Thank you.....
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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Originally Posted by CelticLady1
If faith is a gift, does that mean that God is playing favorites, something that we, as reasonably decent human beings and parents, would frown on, and disagree with? After all, we generally "gift" our children as reasonably and as fairly the same as we can, do we not? Yet, only certain lucky people are gifted by God to have faith, which really is just a fundamentalist Christian's polite way of saying that they were smart enough to become Christians, while everyone else is a prideful dolt.
I believe in the Creator, but I long since gave up the idea that God is going to toss folks into an eternal hell, (yes, I know, "God doesn't throw people into hell; people put themselves there"), because they weren't smart enough, or "gifted" enough to accept Jesus, particularly those poor saps who never heard of Jesus, or the young kid who's hovering right on the brink of that magical "age of accountability", or the person who's never known anything but horrible abuse all of their life. Yet we are all supposed to know/recognize "Fatherly love", (complete with eternal punishment, stacked up against a mortal/finite life, for making the wrong choice, no less, though it is supposed to be a gift. Hmm...can we say "confusion", boys and girls?).
God doesn't force people accept the "gift"? Well, I don't force my children and grandchildren to accept gifts, either, but I don't threaten them with horrible punishment, if they choose to reject said gift. Good heavens! If we did to our children what God supposedly will do to other folks, for lack of belief, we would be locked up, at the least, and rightfully so. Talk about ungodly behaviour! And, if one would give the argument that God is entitled to act as he chooses, because he is God, well, that's a rather poor argument, needless to say. If God expects us to love unconditionally, and continually, (remember Peter's question about forgiveness? Jesus told him he must forgive "seventy times seven times"), then it stands to reason that he needs to set the example, the same as we are expected to do with our children. To say that one must choose Jesus, (during our very short lives), or suffer hell, (eternally!), is not a choice, no matter how the argument is given. That would be akin to a husband telling his wife that she must "choose" him, or she'll be thrown into a bonfire, over and over, no end in sight! A peculiar kind of love, that! Love cannot be forced, or else it is not love.
It was one of the best moments in my life when I finally and completely, let go of this idea that God is sitting around with a tally-book in his hand, like some cosmic Cowboy, running the herd through, writing down the names of those poor suckers who weren't smart enough to pick the "right" chute. I'm not constantly frightened for myself, my children, my family, my friends, etc. I can enjoy the life that my Creator has given me, to the very best of my ability. I've learned to look at other people, not as "poor unfortunate lost souls", but as people, in their own right, entitled to their own beliefs, without being told that not only are they wrong, but they are damned! I've learned to leave other folks alone, and allow them to live their own lives, and "work out their own salvation", as it were, according to their own beliefs. It's not my place, or my business to tell other folks how they should relate to their Creator, or even whether they should. Rather reminds me of an old Hank Williams song, in which he said that if we're minding our own business, we won't be busy minding someone else's.
For those Christians who are content, happy, and fulfilled in their walk with God, I say more power to you. If it brings you comfort and joy, that's wonderful! If going to church, and being fully involved in the same gives you what you need in your life, that's fine, (been there, done that, by the way). But, remember, just because it's the right way for you, doesn't mean it the right way for everyone else. It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp. Grown folks don't need you to lead them around by the hand, treating them as though they are foolish children, (the same idea used to witness to the Native Americans, and other indigenous peoples, I might add, with many disastrous results).
"God will understand, my lord. And, if he doesn't, then he is not God, and we need not worry".
I also see the poll as a positive development although I don't believe that anyone is going anywhere after they're dead. What I do see as a positive thing is the fact that more people are apparently recognizing that there are other religious points of view that are also based on faith just like the Christian religion and that maybe they're not so different afterall. I've always been turned off by the attitude that if you don't believe in my God then you're going to hell, my God is right and your God is wrong. That point of view has led to persecution, torture and war throughout human history.
If faith is a gift, does that mean that God is playing favorites, something that we, as reasonably decent human beings and parents, would frown on, and disagree with? After all, we generally "gift" our children as reasonably and as fairly the same as we can, do we not? Yet, only certain lucky people are gifted by God to have faith, which really is just a fundamentalist Christian's polite way of saying that they were smart enough to become Christians, while everyone else is a prideful dolt.
I believe in the Creator, but I long since gave up the idea that God is going to toss folks into an eternal hell, (yes, I know, "God doesn't throw people into hell; people put themselves there"), because they weren't smart enough, or "gifted" enough to accept Jesus, particularly those poor saps who never heard of Jesus, or the young kid who's hovering right on the brink of that magical "age of accountability", or the person who's never known anything but horrible abuse all of their life. Yet we are all supposed to know/recognize "Fatherly love", (complete with eternal punishment, stacked up against a mortal/finite life, for making the wrong choice, no less, though it is supposed to be a gift. Hmm...can we say "confusion", boys and girls?).
God doesn't force people accept the "gift"? Well, I don't force my children and grandchildren to accept gifts, either, but I don't threaten them with horrible punishment, if they choose to reject said gift. Good heavens! If we did to our children what God supposedly will do to other folks, for lack of belief, we would be locked up, at the least, and rightfully so. Talk about ungodly behaviour! And, if one would give the argument that God is entitled to act as he chooses, because he is God, well, that's a rather poor argument, needless to say. If God expects us to love unconditionally, and continually, (remember Peter's question about forgiveness? Jesus told him he must forgive "seventy times seven times"), then it stands to reason that he needs to set the example, the same as we are expected to do with our children. To say that one must choose Jesus, (during our very short lives), or suffer hell, (eternally!), is not a choice, no matter how the argument is given. That would be akin to a husband telling his wife that she must "choose" him, or she'll be thrown into a bonfire, over and over, no end in sight! A peculiar kind of love, that! Love cannot be forced, or else it is not love.
It was one of the best moments in my life when I finally and completely, let go of this idea that God is sitting around with a tally-book in his hand, like some cosmic Cowboy, running the herd through, writing down the names of those poor suckers who weren't smart enough to pick the "right" chute. I'm not constantly frightened for myself, my children, my family, my friends, etc. I can enjoy the life that my Creator has given me, to the very best of my ability. I've learned to look at other people, not as "poor unfortunate lost souls", but as people, in their own right, entitled to their own beliefs, without being told that not only are they wrong, but they are damned! I've learned to leave other folks alone, and allow them to live their own lives, and "work out their own salvation", as it were, according to their own beliefs. It's not my place, or my business to tell other folks how they should relate to their Creator, or even whether they should. Rather reminds me of an old Hank Williams song, in which he said that if we're minding our own business, we won't be busy minding someone else's.
For those Christians who are content, happy, and fulfilled in their walk with God, I say more power to you. If it brings you comfort and joy, that's wonderful! If going to church, and being fully involved in the same gives you what you need in your life, that's fine, (been there, done that, by the way). But, remember, just because it's the right way for you, doesn't mean it the right way for everyone else. It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp. Grown folks don't need you to lead them around by the hand, treating them as though they are foolish children, (the same idea used to witness to the Native Americans, and other indigenous peoples, I might add, with many disastrous results).
"God will understand, my lord. And, if he doesn't, then he is not God, and we need not worry".
I have seen you use " Jerusalem's east gate remains sealed" as proof of prophesies many times, but I fail to find those words anywhere in the bible. The closest thing to that I find is this, but that can't be it...It merely says the gate was shut. Could you direct me?
Ezekiel 44:1 - Then He brought me back the way of the Gate of the outward sanctuary which looks toward the East; and it was shut.
Ezekiel 44: 1 to 3. Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut. Then said the Lord unto me; This gate shall be shut, (it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it because the Lord, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. (It is for the prince; the prince!)
From the article, "70% of respondents agreed with the statement 'Many religions can lead to eternal life.'"
I think most Christians on here would agree with this. There are those that practice many religions (I'm speaking of Protestants and Catholics, those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God and who believe that the Bible is the word of God) who are truly saved and will certainly spend eternity in heaven. No one "religion" has the corner on that market, so to speak .
"Even more remarkable was the fact that 57% of Evangelical Christians were willing to accept that theirs might not be the only path to salvation, since most Christians historically have embraced the words of Jesus, in the Gospel of John, that 'no one comes to the Father except through me.'"
This is the part that is somewhat surprising to me. But as others have said, it's really just a sign of the times .
This is the part that is somewhat surprising to me. But as others have said, it's really just a sign of the times
You made that statement with a little frown icon at the end as though it was disappointing but for people around the world who have various religious beliefs wouldn't it be a good thing from a religious perspective if muslims, buddists and others could also find their path to salvation instead of being damned while only Christians were saved?
Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Shii'a, Sunni, Buddhist, Hindu, Baha'i, Zoroaster and even agnostic and atheist; we are all climbing the same mountain, only the paths are different.
Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Shii'a, Sunni, Buddhist, Hindu, Baha'i, Zoroaster and even agnostic and atheist; we are all climbing the same mountain, only the paths are different.
Except the atheists don't believe that there is a mountain to climb.
"Even more remarkable was the fact that 57% of Evangelical Christians were willing to accept that theirs might not be the only path to salvation, since most Christians historically have embraced the words of Jesus, in the Gospel of John, that 'no one comes to the Father except through me.'"
Wow...I knew that evangelical christianity had gone shallow, but I didn't realize it was that bad. How such a large percentage of people can claim a religion, but don't believe one of its main tenets is simply stunning. I'd like to know how this happened, but maybe that's for a separate thread.
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), is not a choice, no matter how the argument is given. That would be akin to a husband telling his wife that she must "choose" him, or she'll be thrown into a bonfire, over and over, no end in sight! A peculiar kind of love, that! Love cannot be forced, or else it is not love. 
writing down the names of those poor suckers who weren't smart enough to pick the "right" chute. I'm not constantly frightened for myself, my children, my family, my friends, etc. I can enjoy the life that my Creator has given me, to the very best of my ability. I've learned to look at other people, not as "poor unfortunate lost souls", but as people, in their own right, entitled to their own beliefs, without being told that not only are they wrong, but they are damned!
). But, remember, just because it's the right way for you, doesn't mean it the right way for everyone else. It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp. Grown folks don't need you to lead them around by the hand, treating them as though they are foolish children, (the same idea used to witness to the Native Americans, and other indigenous peoples, I might add, with many disastrous results).
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