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Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense
As an example of what I am referring to consider Rev.22:
[20] Surely I am coming soon. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!(English Standard Version)
Christians have been proclaiming the imminent return of Jesus for two thousand years now. And the "clear Word" of Revelation indicates that the second coming was expected to happen "soon," or quickly. Two thousand years ago the second coming of Jesus and the final judgment of humankind were one of Christianity's most powerful evangelic tools. Christians have been declaring and expecting, the second coming to occur "soon," at any moment, for the last two thousand years. Unfortunately for Christians, two thousand years of dead wrong futility is anything but "soon." So God's "clear Word" must necessarily be interpreted to mean something other than what it plainly says. At this point, it is far too late for Jesus to return "soon." Jesus can only return "eventually." Or "in God's own good time." "Soon" no longer applies.
Actually, His return as the Comforter (Holy Spirit of God) did happen at Pentecost. It just wasn't in the physical form our primitive ancestors expected.
Actually, His return as the Comforter (Holy Spirit of God) did happen at Pentecost. It just wasn't in the physical form our primitive ancestors expected.
This is not the claim of the overwhelming majority of Christians though, is it! Christians have been asserting that Jesus is about to return at any moment now to usher in the final judgement, for the last 2,000 years.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Or as G.W. once put it:
The Bible should not be taken literally. It gives concepts about God. Like when Jesus said you can move mountains with faith. No mountain has ever been moved. It's just a concept that means you can accomplish seemingly impossible things if you have faith in God. The confidence God gives you by His Presence lets you float over all the obstacles in life & reach your goals.
God is a Spirit. You open your mind to the spiritual side of life which is all around us & you will meet God. He will come from there & manifest to you as The Bible Says.
When you fall asleep your spirit goes to the spiritual side & God will give your soul symbolic lessons there, & then perhaps let you remember them when you wake up; if He thinks they can help your earth life in some way.
"Why do so many people refuse to read the clear Word he has given us in lieu of receiving cryptic messages that we have to decode?"- BaptistFundie
Wikipedia
Biblical hermeneutics
Biblical hermeneutics is the study of the principles of interpretation concerning the books of the Bible. It is part of the broader field of hermeneutics, which involves the study of principles of interpretation for all forms of communication, nonverbal and verbal.[1]
SO.. since there are various interpretive traditions of the Bible, it is obvious that the "clear Word" is not so clear after all. The Bible often very plainly says one thing, and yet we are told, by various groups, that it often really means something else.
As an example of what I am referring to consider Rev.22:
[20] Surely I am coming soon. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!(English Standard Version)
Christians have been proclaiming the imminent return of Jesus for two thousand years now. And the "clear Word" of Revelation indicates that the second coming was expected to happen "soon," or quickly. Two thousand years ago the second coming of Jesus and the final judgement of humankind were one of Christianity's most powerful evangelic tools. Christians have been declaring, and expecting, the second coming to occur "soon," at any moment, for the last two thousand years. Unfortunately for Christians, two thousand years of dead wrong futility is anything but "soon." So God's "clear Word" must necessarily be interpreted to mean something other than what it plainly says. At this point it is far too late for Jesus to return "soon." Jesus can only return "eventually." Or "in God's own good time." "Soon" no longer applies.
So, what God's "clear Word" actually says is necessarily forced to be reinterpreted to bring it into conformity with the undeniable facts of reality. At which point, God's "clear Word" means exactly what each individual decides that it individually pleases them to believe that it means. Which goes a long way towards explaining the existence of more than forty thousand different Christian denominations.
The way
The Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary estimated 34,000 denominations in 2000, rising to an estimated 43,000 in 2012. These numbers have exploded from 1,600 in the year 1900. https://theway21stcentury.wordpress....ons-worldwide/
What we are observing here is that God's "clear Word" actually means exactly what you have decided that it must actually mean according to your personal indoctrination and interpretation, praise the Lord.
Which is no different from dreaming it and declaring it to be true.
All those first Gentile converts knew it was a race to the day of the Lord, not something you wait on, the very first sentence of Revelation tells the reader that everything in the book must shortly come to pass, that the reader has to fulfill everything in Revelation.
Matthew 24 is telling the reader what to do in Rosh Hashanah when he sees the abomination in himself.
Today's Christian has no idea he is in a race, or how to run, or what he is racing for. Let no one say,'' The lord is coming here or there,'' the kingdom of heaven doesn't come in sight where one can say,'' There is the kongdom.'' The kingdom is within people, it is merely a door to open.
All those first Gentile converts knew it was a race to the day of the Lord, not something you wait on, the very first sentence of Revelation tells the reader that everything in the book must shortly come to pass, that the reader has to fulfill everything in Revelation.
Matthew 24 is telling the reader what to do in Rosh Hashanah when he sees the abomination in himself.
Today's Christian has no idea he is in a race, or how to run, or what he is racing for. Let no one say,'' The lord is coming here or there,'' the kingdom of heaven doesn't come in sight where one can say,'' There is the kongdom.'' The kingdom is within people, it is merely a door to open.
BaptistFundie referred to God's "clear Word." Do you agree then that God's "clear Word" is open to individual interpretation?
The Bible should not be taken literally. It gives concepts about God. Like when Jesus said you can move mountains with faith. No mountain has ever been moved. It's just a concept that means you can accomplish seemingly impossible things if you have faith in God. The confidence God gives you by His Presence lets you float over all the obstacles in life & reach your goals.
God is a Spirit. You open your mind to the spiritual side of life which is all around us & you will meet God. He will come from there & manifest to you as The Bible Says.
When you fall asleep your spirit goes to the spiritual side & God will give your soul symbolic lessons there, & then perhaps let you remember them when you wake up; if He thinks they can help your earth life in some way.
taking the bible literally is like taking "Thats one rad set of wheels" literally when talking about cars.
when you sleep some of the controls that you have while you are awake are removed so memories get mixed up. I guess a more precise way to state is that some thoughts break through that wouldn't while you are awake.
Actually, His return as the Comforter (Holy Spirit of God) did happen at Pentecost. It just wasn't in the physical form our primitive ancestors expected.
Take it easy on our ancestors. They built seven wonders of the ancient world, moved 1200 ton stone blocks, easily built *** saw type masonry walls out of blocks that way 100 ton. They built temples with 5000 granite statues just in ONE room, and rooms were plenty. They knew everything about universe and had very precise sciences. They did advanced surgeries.
Things not even attempted today, in such "advanced" times.
They were, at least, just like us. Same brain size, same mental capacities. Believing that everyone in those times was nothing more than just a herd shepherd or dumb fisherman is very egoistic and nothing but pride.
Take it easy on our ancestors. They built seven wonders of the ancient world, moved 1200 ton stone blocks, easily built *** saw type masonry walls out of blocks that way 100 ton. They built temples with 5000 granite statues just in ONE room, and rooms were plenty. They knew everything about universe and had very precise sciences. They did advanced surgeries.
Things not even attempted today, in such "advanced" times.
They were, at least, just like us. Same brain size, same mental capacities. Believing that everyone in those times was nothing more than just a herd shepherd or dumb fisherman is very egoistic and nothing but pride.
BaptistFundie referred to God's "clear Word." Do you agree then that God's "clear Word" is open to individual interpretation?
No, it isn't.
You cannot interpret things you wont study, you can't have an opinion on something when you don't know anything about the subject you are discussing
Christians are discussing Judaism day in and day out, a religion based in 7 missions, and what we are to expect in 7 feasts.
Christians speaking of Rosh Hashanah and Sukkot day in and day out without ever realizing what they are speaking of, and then they say,' it's all up for interpretation.''
You can't interpret a spiritual meaning from a thing you never knew, for instance, when the daily sacrifice begins to take place, what does all the traditions, phrases, and duties of the priest represent and how is the daily sacrifice carried out? What is the priest offerring and why?
This is the daily sacrice, the most common foundation of all sacrifices which all point to Jesus.
We can get BF to list all the duties, everything said and done and let him give his interpretation, or his interpretation of any appointed day, any feast, any Holy day of Jesus which symbolise everything Jesus came to do.
How would BF interpret spiritual meaning from Holy days he doesn't believe in or study?
People have an opinion on the temple, they claim to be the temple, but they don't know their own comings and goings, and they still want an opinion on something they don't study.
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