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Old 07-11-2008, 05:11 AM
 
Location: PA
2,595 posts, read 4,429,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Very interesting thought... not sure I can get my mind around it. How can you have more proof of something/someone non-existant?

Anyway, back to the OP... good posts, thefer, ILNC and Nikk!
Thanks cg81!
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:43 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 6,255,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
So your answer to the OP's question of:

Quote:
Who/What did people believe and how did they get to heaven B.C.??
Would be they didn't and they haven't?
Yes.. really, mankind was doomed until Jesus came, even though the Messiah had been promised. If Jesus had not come, no one could ever go to Heaven. But now, the saints of the OT and the saved who die in our era can have a promise to be there someday.

Quote:
This is something I began looking at just this past week and I'm inclined to think Heaven is for the future after the judgment. And indeed, the saints rest now.

Accurate? (In your opinion)
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
So... what do you do in the meanwhile? Is it like one of those waiting rooms in Beetlejuice where they have a guy who shrinks heads?? Because I think that would be pretty cool.
Well, what did you do last night while you were sleeping? (You don't need to give me a complete report! ) Anyway, if a person is resting or sleeping, they are not aware of the passing of time. A person who died 1000 years ago will wake up at the coming judgement and it will appear to that person that no time has passed, IMO. They're not sitting somewhere twiddling their thumbs and saying, "Man, when can I enter the gates."
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,712 posts, read 13,427,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post

Well, what did you do last night while you were sleeping? (You don't need to give me a complete report! ) Anyway, if a person is resting or sleeping, they are not aware of the passing of time. A person who died 1000 years ago will wake up at the coming judgement and it will appear to that person that no time has passed, IMO. They're not sitting somewhere twiddling their thumbs and saying, "Man, when can I enter the gates."
Yeah, imagine if you were the first person to have ever died and when you got to the waiting room you were thinking it'd be a real quick process only to find out that you had to wait for every single human all throughout history to die before you had that luxury? That would be pretty bad. What'd be even worse is if you found out that you were going to hell after waiting all that time. Man, I'd be ticked off. I don't even like waiting at the doctor's office more than 15 minutes.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:13 AM
 
Location: in my house
1,385 posts, read 2,999,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 View Post
Now, as for the souls before Christ, they were held captive until such time that Jesus appeared to them and were liberated.

Captive? where? doesn't sound very nice of god to do that to souls.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
3,412 posts, read 10,143,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
Yeah, imagine if you were the first person to have ever died and when you got to the waiting room you were thinking it'd be a real quick process only to find out that you had to wait for every single human all throughout history to die before you had that luxury? That would be pretty bad. What'd be even worse is if you found out that you were going to hell after waiting all that time. Man, I'd be ticked off. I don't even like waiting at the doctor's office more than 15 minutes.

I wonder if there is an ID check? Can you imaging dying a good person but being confused with some bad person and be sent to hell?? I'll make sure to pack my passport.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:09 PM
 
21,893 posts, read 19,038,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepsMom View Post
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)



Who/What did people believe and how did they get to heaven B.C.??
Also i believe it is a misinterpretation to read the quote above as the only way to god is through Christ, and that all other faiths or peoples are somehow doomed or wrong or lost or inferior in some way. I don't think that's what Christ meant at all.

It makes more sense to me to read that quote as the way to god is through the heart (where our divine self lives in each of us) and through living in the ways Christ espoused, such as non-judgment, kindness, do unto others, honoring the earth, those sorts of things, we would be living from our holy self in loving relationship with Creator and other people.

I believe humans twist Christs message in all sorts of ways, and that is one example
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,826,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepsMom View Post
I wonder if there is an ID check? Can you imaging dying a good person but being confused with some bad person and be sent to hell?? I'll make sure to pack my passport.
There is no mistake, you inherit the kingdom that you obey....

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:23 PM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,849,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimSumRaja View Post
Also i believe it is a misinterpretation to read the quote above as the only way to god is through Christ, and that all other faiths or peoples are somehow doomed or wrong or lost or inferior in some way. I don't think that's what Christ meant at all.

It makes more sense to me to read that quote as the way to god is through the heart (where our divine self lives in each of us) and through living in the ways Christ espoused, such as non-judgment, kindness, do unto others, honoring the earth, those sorts of things, we would be living from our holy self in loving relationship with Creator and other people.

I believe humans twist Christs message in all sorts of ways, and that is one example
This is unbelievable.

Jesus said "I am the Truth, the Way and The Life"

AND

He says "No one comes to the Father except through me".

You say "It makes more sense to me to read that quote as the way to god is through the heart."

And Christians have twisted the message?

He said "I" and "me" and I believe He meant "I" and "me".

You believe He meant "heart".

Which options requires twisting?

Last edited by Alpha8207; 07-11-2008 at 10:41 PM..
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:27 PM
 
Location: PA
2,595 posts, read 4,429,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimSumRaja View Post
Also i believe it is a misinterpretation to read the quote above as the only way to god is through Christ, and that all other faiths or peoples are somehow doomed or wrong or lost or inferior in some way. I don't think that's what Christ meant at all.

It makes more sense to me to read that quote as the way to god is through the heart (where our divine self lives in each of us) and through living in the ways Christ espoused, such as non-judgment, kindness, do unto others, honoring the earth, those sorts of things, we would be living from our holy self in loving relationship with Creator and other people.

I believe humans twist Christs message in all sorts of ways, and that is one example
Sounds like you are twisting the message of Christ. It is written, "there is no other name given under heaven wereby we must be saved". It is only through Jesus Christ that there is salvation!
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Netherlands
249 posts, read 531,235 times
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Default The one firmly standing for righteousness is in line for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepsMom View Post
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)



Who/What did people believe and how did they get to heaven B.C.??

They believed in the same thing..

Much of what Jesus taught was not new.. and many wise men before him had taught the same simple principles. That righteousness.. in thought.. word and deed.. was the way to enter into eternal life.. and that nothing else was necessary.

Only love.

------

“The one firmly standing for righteousness is in line for life, but the one chasing after what is bad is in line for his own death.”

“He that is pursuing righteousness and loving-kindness will find life, righteousness and glory.” - Proverbs 11:19 + 21:21


“For I say to you that if your righteousness does not abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens.” - Matthew 5:20

And the guiding principle for righteousness is..


""All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean." - Jesus - Matthew 7:12

-------------
"For the entire Law stands fulfilled in one saying, namely: "You must love your neighbour as yourself." If, though, you keep on biting and devouring one another, look out that you do not get annihilated by one another." - Paul - Galatians 5:14
--------------

You must not take vengeance nor have a grudge against the sons of your people; and you must love your fellow as yourself." - Moses - Leviticus 19:18

------------------------

"Love the world as your own self; then you can truly care for all things." - Lao Tzu

--------------
"When one cultivates to the utmost the principles of his nature, and exercises them on the principle of reciprocity, he is not far from the path. What you do not like when done to yourself, do not do to others." - Confucius

-------------
"There is especially the rule of doing to others what you would have others do to you, and refraining from doing to others what you would not have others do to you.

You will say to yourselves: "Here I am, fond of life and not wanting to die, fond of pleasure and averse to pain. If anyone should attempt to take my life from me, or inflict pain upon me, that would not be pleasing to me, and if I were to rob someone else of life, or inflict pain, that likewise would not be pleasing to him." - The Buddha


And.. even atheists believe.. according to this passage from the American Atheist mission statement.. :-)


”An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now -- here on earth -- for all men together to enjoy."

American Atheists


"The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the surface of the Earth.. but men do not see it." - Jesus -Gospel of Thomas


----------

"Surely we could love each other as we love ourselves...

That's the main thing, isn't it?

That's it, nothing else...

Absolutely nothing else is necessary...

Do that and the way forward is clear, isn't it?

Well.... isn't it?

Alright, so its nothing but an old truth, repeated, said billions of times; but why hasn't it taken root then?

If only we all wanted it!

Then everything could begin again."

Extract from "The Dream of the Ridiculous Man"- Fyodor-Dostoyevski


*
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