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Old 07-13-2008, 11:14 AM
 
Location: South Florida
553 posts, read 509,800 times
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How is this passage explained?


Quote:
So the LORD was with Judah. And they drove out the mountaineers, but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the lowland, because they had chariots of iron.
- Judges 1:19


Now this is stated in the chapter after a series of successful victories by the tribe of Judah (under Caleb) during the conquest of Canaan. Did an editor miss this? Does it not show the inferiority of the Judaite army in the face superior technology by an enemy, one that not even their god could defeat?

You can sometimes see an intent purpose by biblical writers/editors in the earlier parts of the Old Testament to show that despite Israel's relatively small size and small armies [with their god], they were always able to defeat stronger and larger armies. Here we see something clearly out of the usual AND this was not one of those moments where we are told Israel either met defeat or had trouble attaining victory because of their sins as the biblical writers were always apt to point out. We are told that the enemy could not be defeated simply because they had chariots NOT because of any sins.


Your thoughts?
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:09 PM
 
Location: South Florida
553 posts, read 509,800 times
Reputation: 85
No one has a "revealed" truth to this?
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,115,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yydanay515 View Post
No one has a "revealed" truth to this?
Of course someone does. God is in heaven. He could see what the enemy had up on the hills, but not what was way down in those valleys.

Look dude, here's the deal. To this particular writer:
"The Lord was with us" = "We kicked butt".
"The Lord was not with us" = "We got our butts kicked".

and...

"The Lord was with us at first, then we saw the big iron chariots" =
"We thought we were kicking butt, but then we realized we were not kicking butt"

You enjoy picking on the literalists and 'infallibility of the bible' believers don't you?
Cuz you used to be one!

Jesus still loves ya' though!

blessings,
- Byron
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,115,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
You enjoy picking on the literalists and 'infallibility of the bible' believers don't you?
Cuz you used to be one!
To be honest yydanay, I picked up a few bad habits too when I was 'among them'. I would like to say my revealtion of God's 'big picture' plan I had at the beginning (ie: before 'church') protected me from all of the absurd teachings - like the infallibility of scripture and the 'bible code' farce and all that, but it didn't.

blessings,
- Byron
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:44 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,293 posts, read 81,534,411 times
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per your post
always is a big word covers a lot of ground. the jews whuped em and they got whuped. in the long run they did alright. just like us. they were not magicians just people. they had a lot of victories. it seemed at times they were finished but somehow they made it. they prayed a lot and asked god to help them but it was not like an auto teller. don't work that way does it? a lot like us no?
my own life looks kind of like the bible stories, that's why i like it.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:20 PM
 
Location: South Florida
553 posts, read 509,800 times
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You guys completely lost me. Firstborn are you saying that I should not take the story literally?
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,115,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yydanay515 View Post
You guys completely lost me. Firstborn are you saying that I should not take the story literally?
I'm saying you should not take phrase "and the Lord was with Judah" literally in this case because, as you pointed out - the primitive horse drawn tanks would not have made a difference if "the Lord was with Judah".

It seems that Huckleberry agrees with this assessment.

So what's your point yydanay? Was it not to show that the bible is in error in that passage?

blessings,
- Byron
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:03 AM
 
Location: South Florida
553 posts, read 509,800 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
I'm saying you should not take phrase "and the Lord was with Judah" literally in this case because, as you pointed out - the primitive horse drawn tanks would not have made a difference if "the Lord was with Judah".

It seems that Huckleberry agrees with this assessment.

So what's your point yydanay? Was it not to show that the bible is in error in that passage?

blessings,
- Byron
Error??? No. Accurate is more like it.

So how should I interpret it if not literal?
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Old 07-19-2008, 03:45 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,115,065 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by yydanay515 View Post
Error??? No. Accurate is more like it.

So how should I interpret it if not literal?


Now you lost me. My first post is how I interpret it, and that interpretation is offered up for your consideration, that God was not literally with them and that in this case it was a figure of speech.

What do you see in the passage?

blessings,
- Byron
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Old 07-19-2008, 04:38 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 15,472,750 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by yydanay515
Quote:
How is this passage explained?
Quote:
So the LORD was with Judah. And they drove out the mountaineers, but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the lowland , because they had chariots of iron.
- Judges 1:19
Christianity as a concept had everything against it;
- For openers its leader was dead.
- Compared to the Romans the Christians were pathetically outnumbered.
- They had no army, nominal leadership were badly organised and poor tacticians.
But the Christians had 1 thing their Roman antagonists had lost; a God they believed in.
And that simple, singular power –faith- proved stronger than all of Caesar’s mighty army and general.
The most awesome, implacable city in the history of mankind – to which all roads on earth lead to- eventually crumbled and vanished from the earth.
Yet Christianity is still here [ although so does evil].

I would submit there are a few lessons to be learned here.
- 1. Even the strongest army has its Achilles heel.
- 2. A small faction has tremendous potential if properly focused.
- 3. The stoutest chain – even that of the Roman Republic- is only as strong as its weakest link.

Christianity in the glory days of the Roman Republic could be summed up in 1 word: solidarity; about union, about brotherhood, about an army of 1.
Too bad fascism prospers under the same principles.
So the saying that a follower of Jesus shall only be known by his fruit is the simple truth.
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