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Old 07-17-2008, 10:29 PM
 
Location: A Pirate Ship.
93 posts, read 171,920 times
Reputation: 32

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In the Old Testament, God transcends all the limited and special forces and powers of the human experience. However, although God's power is manifest in nature, the main arena for divine activity is the sequence of historical events related to the calling, the establishment, and the protection of a chosen people. In this, moreover, God is revealed as moral or righteous, the source of the moral law, and is quick to punish those, including the chosen ones, who defy this law. God is, however, also a God of mercy, patience, faithfulness, and grace. This God of history, covenant, judgment, and promised redemption is assumed to be, and often clearly affirmed to be, the ruler of all events.

Although this is primarily addressed to the Old Testament, this notion of God reappears, with some modification, in the New Testament.

What are your thoughts on these paradoxical or "dialectical tensions"?
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:13 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,922,516 times
Reputation: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Panda god View Post
In the Old Testament, God transcends all the limited and special forces and powers of the human experience. However, although God's power is manifest in nature, the main arena for divine activity is the sequence of historical events related to the calling, the establishment, and the protection of a chosen people. In this, moreover, God is revealed as moral or righteous, the source of the moral law, and is quick to punish those, including the chosen ones, who defy this law. God is, however, also a God of mercy, patience, faithfulness, and grace. This God of history, covenant, judgment, and promised redemption is assumed to be, and often clearly affirmed to be, the ruler of all events.

Although this is primarily addressed to the Old Testament, this notion of God reappears, with some modification, in the New Testament.

What are your thoughts on these paradoxical or "dialectical tensions"?
I believe the change in God's attitude in the new testament was the product of a better understandment of God's nature by Christ example.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:48 AM
 
Location: A Pirate Ship.
93 posts, read 171,920 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
I believe the change in God's attitude in the new testament was the product of a better understandment of God's nature by Christ example.
So, God's attitude changed simply because the writers were in direct contact with Jesus (accepted to be an extension of God by some)?

From that I can only see that the writers of the Bible are in more control of what God does over what God tells them.
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:33 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 15,438,905 times
Reputation: 1573
I think that the God in the OT represents a 1st time parent perfectly.
I find it unjust that God punished humanity for Adam & Eve having eaten of the Tree of Knowledge.
This situation could be compared to a parent (God) who tells his children not to play with guns because they are dangerous when the kids don't even grasp the concept of death and danger.
Since Adam & Eve had never sinned before and never had any previous experience with danger before (there was no death in Eden) it is extremely harsh to blame His children (and the children's children) for disobeying Him.
God in the NT realised that punishing Adam & Eve without giving them a learning curve is unjust. You could say that Jesus realised that in order to learn a learning curve is necessary.
Only those children who are unwilling to learn should be punished.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:45 AM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 4,221,247 times
Reputation: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Panda god View Post
In the Old Testament, God transcends all the limited and special forces and powers of the human experience. However, although God's power is manifest in nature, the main arena for divine activity is the sequence of historical events related to the calling, the establishment, and the protection of a chosen people. In this, moreover, God is revealed as moral or righteous, the source of the moral law, and is quick to punish those, including the chosen ones, who defy this law. God is, however, also a God of mercy, patience, faithfulness, and grace. This God of history, covenant, judgment, and promised redemption is assumed to be, and often clearly affirmed to be, the ruler of all events.

Although this is primarily addressed to the Old Testament, this notion of God reappears, with some modification, in the New Testament.

What are your thoughts on these paradoxical or "dialectical tensions"?
I fail to see where the paradox is that you are refering too. What is it that you have difficulty understanding about God?

I as a person can say to my children "Don't do this or that". I then am the law giver. I can also give punishment for failing to obey my commands. I can also be merciful, loving, giving, etc... So, am I a paradox? No I am human. Since, God created humans in his image can he not be the same? Of course, but greater!

I think the difficulty you might have is if you considered God to be a force like fire. Where if it was said of God as fire he was both cold and hot at different places in the bible you could then question the nature of God.

Well, God is a person. And as a person He has the ability to reason, change his mind, be persuaded by the petitions of man (prayer), give, take, be merciful, judge, destroy (since all of creation belongs to him, he can destroy that which is not pleasing to Him), love, chose one person over another, etc...

The God of the OT is the same God of the NT. He did not change. In fact the scriptures say there "is no shadow of turning with Him" and "He changes not, his mercies are new every morning".

I find this error in thinking alot, that some people say that God in the OT was vengeful and terrible and the God in the NT was loving and kind. Well, I cannot find evidence for this arguement. Even in the NT we find God killing people. See the story of Ananias and Sephira who were both struck down dead for lying to the apostles.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Retirementland
1,233 posts, read 2,643,543 times
Reputation: 829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
I think that the God in the OT represents a 1st time parent perfectly.
I find it unjust that God punished humanity for Adam & Eve having eaten of the Tree of Knowledge.
This situation could be compared to a parent (God) who tells his children not to play with guns because they are dangerous when the kids don't even grasp the concept of death and danger.
Since Adam & Eve had never sinned before and never had any previous experience with danger before (there was no death in Eden) it is extremely harsh to blame His children (and the children's children) for disobeying Him.
God in the NT realised that punishing Adam & Eve without giving them a learning curve is unjust. You could say that Jesus realised that in order to learn a learning curve is necessary.
Only those children who are unwilling to learn should be punished.
Wouldn't that make God imperfect?
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:41 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 15,438,905 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by emi__
Quote:
Wouldn't that make God imperfect?
Man is imperfect and only by striving to be perfect can man improve himself.
I find nothing wrong with having to experience things in order to learn something.
Besides if man was perfect he would not need to learn anything and life would become unbearably boring.
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