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Old 05-31-2009, 12:25 PM
 
175 posts, read 424,241 times
Reputation: 83

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One more thought...

PLUS, I could offer a description of Mr. Olsen putting out extremely negative and untrue statements about former students that is as recent as a few months ago...as in 2009.

Is that gurus do: spew negative, untruthful, malicious, belittling, condescending bull**** about "the souls who are made of the same essence as them"? Why? What are they protecting? Is that what being realized looks like?

And they do this to people who have spent hardcore years being devoted, giving of themselves selflessly in serving the leaders. Students are donating exorbitant amounts of money either in the greenback form, or through free services. And I'm talking free services that, if added up, would reach into the millions. Us former students are seeing that the MP leaders are callous, and truly lacking in appreciation and respect for the very people from whom they expect to receive the ultimate spiritual respect, and their personal needs served without question. What's wrong with this picture? How can they expect to receive from us what they are unable to give or BE?

This is how the leaders of MP treat us upon our departure: they put the word out that we are bad news. And guess what, some of us lose friends, people turn against us, saying horribly hurtful things that we end up having to transcend. And yet, they expect us to view and relate to Gary as some kind of saint or guru. Give us all a break.

Allan, you and 'wonderingaboutthetruth' are naive in understanding the painful process of separating from a path that you've dedicated your life to serving. That is why I say you are clueless. It is also interesting that you find no offense in calling people who are not on the MP as being 'ignorant.' Yet, when that viewpoint is turned back unto you, you are easily offended.

Please do not dissect this post. I am not interested in an ongoing discussion about that which you are not ready to see. But I will thank you for your participation on this forum, as you have played a vital role in allowing truthful and damning information to be posted on MP from former students.

We all wish you well on your path.

 
Old 05-31-2009, 03:00 PM
 
175 posts, read 424,241 times
Reputation: 83
Also, I love what SoulPatriot shares. It is beautiful, simple, true, and kind. Allan, please do not attack, demean, or dissect it. It is our truth.
 
Old 05-31-2009, 03:21 PM
 
175 posts, read 424,241 times
Reputation: 83
And just in case you overlook the hardcore no fluffy stuff in the sky message of our truth, let me remind you: Masterpath is crap!
 
Old 05-31-2009, 06:57 PM
 
175 posts, read 424,241 times
Reputation: 83
A few more things to reiterate on MP to you Allan...

what "rememberingyou" shares about Gary being the final authoritarian on MP: absolutely true!

What "rememberingyou" shares about there are no checks and balances on MP: absolutely true!

Who is living the CUSHY LIFE on MP? Is it the leaders, or is it people like the chela who irons article of clothing for a $1.00 a piece. Of those people, who do you suppose is going to retire with a big fat bank account and retirement savings? The leaders of MP raking in the dough, or the chela ironing shirts for a buck?

And last, the financial information posted by FormerChela was eye-popping for me. We were told something very different from that information. Now, I do not even believe that financial information is an accurate representation of their "all-inclusive" benefits. We certainly weren't told that they were receiving 20k salary increases in a 2 year span. Former Chela makes an astute point: if that is the rate of salary increase for them, wonder what 2009 looks like?

I do not believe that what they put forth is true. I believe they work hard at manufacturing information to create the appearance of what they want people to believe, not what is actually true.

and finally, this is a public forum, and the public has weighed in on this group... and a resounding red-flag has been shared by all in one common viewpoint: real gurus do not charge for their guidance, or for 'enlightenment'. Period. Anyone that does is a fraud.
 
Old 05-31-2009, 08:56 PM
 
175 posts, read 424,241 times
Reputation: 83
Default my good bye to Mr. Olsen

To FormerChela,

here is a sampling of some of the final words spoken to me by Mr. Olsen at 6am following "his morning session of talking with Anami (God)": Mr. Olsen, the not so great guru, said "I want you to know that you are letting a cushy life slip right through your fingers, and I want you to remember that as you go through this experience. I suggest you sell your home, and "float away." Yep, those were his blessings to me.

He also went on to say that "you are deluded IF you think you are on THE spiritual path if you are not on MasterPath."

Now, those are not things he will ever say on stage... those not-so-special moments are reserved for behind the scenes. And they are not mine alone.

and guess what the student realizes in those final moments...oh my gawd, the man is not even close to being a real guru or saint. Yes, those final words (plus years of other experiences) crushed my heart and belief in Gary Olsen for eternity. That's my truth.
 
Old 05-31-2009, 09:32 PM
 
175 posts, read 424,241 times
Reputation: 83
Default a last thought

And to make sure there is no confusion, let me make it perfectly clear: there was nothing 'cushy' about life on MP. I spent the majority of my time on MP looking forward to a year where there was a month with a weekend when I was not being expected, asked, or demanded to serve the leaders needs in some way. That is not an exaggeration in the least. Asking for and having my personal space respected came with a great price.

By the end of my time with MP, I felt more imprisoned by the morass of BS that I was witnessing with the "spiritual leaders of MP" than I did as a naive, unknowing, sincere seeker of truth.

Now, I have said as much as I want to on this forum regarding MP. People can decide for themselves whether this teaching represents truth.

And Allan, you have stated that Mr. Olsen is central to the teachings. Well, you might want to know the man before you credit him with the rarefied realms of spiritual consciousness which he claims to embody.
 
Old 05-31-2009, 11:50 PM
 
175 posts, read 424,241 times
Reputation: 83
To: wonderingaboutthetruth,

I want to apologize for clumping you in with Allan on that one point. Not true and not fair. All of us former students share a spiritual connection, and even though I no longer believe in MP or its leaders, I still believe in the goodness of people who have dedicated their lives in pursuit of spiritual awareness. You are one of those souls. I wish you peace and happiness.
 
Old 06-05-2009, 09:56 PM
 
13 posts, read 33,024 times
Reputation: 28
Default Gary.. You're Busted

Hey gary,

Now that the tax forms, are in 'easy to find' public view. It's not going to take long before someone in the right position does the math, and finds that you and your accomplices have been stealing membership dues, leaving them unrecorded. Anyone who's been on MP knows at least 800 ppl show up at your seminars, not to mention those on the phone lines. However, the MP 990 tax forms suggest that only about 100 members aprox are paying dues each year.

According to MP 990 tax records in 1999. All MP income from product sales and donations(which can't be hidden) are documented. Although, membership dues slot is left blank. The same goes for the yr 2000 and 2001. All info that can't be changed is shown, but dues still hidden. Everyone check for yourself in the MP 2003 990 form. Here's the link once again, you just need to regester to gain access. After regestering, just type 'masterpath' in the search. GuideStar nonprofit reports and Forms 990 for donors, grantmakers and businesses

It get's even more intersting in the year 2002. MP states thier annual income from dues was $37,230. Lets do some math. $37,230 divided by $25 dues fee = 1489 dues payments in '02. Divide that by 12 months in 1 year = 124 students only, that paid MP dues that yr.

Now, when I attended the seminars around that time. I saw over 800 ppl there easy. If 800 ppl aprox, can afford to pay $120 for a seminar + $400 or more in travel and hotel fees. I know they can afford the $25 per month. Sooner or later it's going to be exposed that 90% of the dues are being extracted without record, and put into a hidden bank account or cash vault.

You have a seminar tomarrow gary, once again your going to go in front of 1000s. Then spew out lies about yourself and the truth of God(then edit away 25% of the recording because of your temper and ignorant comments).. and for the sake of what? Do you really think the millions you have stashed away is going to make you happy? Yes, you have over $20,000,000 worth of siphoned membership dues. However, this wont make you fulfilled Mr Olsen. The money won't mean anything, once your own Soul recognizes the hurt you've inflicted upon so many. You will feel all that pain combined, manifest in your own consciounce.

Seriously..
Joy, Dennis, kari: Do you really think Gary's going to keep his word and share that money with you for going with his scam? And give you the % he promised when he told you about his 'real' agenda? After demenstrating the capibility to commit one of the most evil, crule, inhuman acts, known to mankind. Do you think he has the coppasity to care about any of you in the slieghtest?

Look at the degree of harm he's inflicted, for those millions of dollars hidden away.. look at the nightmare he's put so many souls through, at the deepest level of thier being, for the sake of a "cozy life". Gary must have a great perversion for the suffering of others to be able to do this, period... It goes beyond my understanding.

Adventually, gary's consciounce will wake up and he will see the horror he's caused upon others in a way that will devistate him, through the inherent compassion and love within his own being. He's so asleep right now, I really think he believes he's beyond real karma on this one, the damage he's inflicted for the sake of.. money.. and probably something even more dirsturbing... like a demented power thrill and a perverson to torment others..

..is something his consciounce will never let him forget.

When he does decide to split, with the money he's stolden from his followers, which may be very soon. He think's he's going to be happy. His delusions of happyness, may keep him "cozy" for a little while, but he's soon going to find. All he's left with is the memory of the harm he's inflicted on so many who have put thier full trust in him. He won't be able to bear his own guilt, his own Soul will remind him every moment. The inherent love, his Soul is imbued with, will create his greatest karma.

In never escaping the knowing of, and living with what he's done to so many. No punishment will equate to the suffering his own Soul and consciounce will feel, from his own self, in remembering and seeing what he has done. This goes for Joy, Dennis and Kari too.

Joy, Dennis and Kari: Are you going to continue the MP after gary disspaears on you with all the money? I don't know how any of you live with yourselfs... honestly. After taking part in the exploit of so many's spiritual sacredness. Then suddenly not having any of the expected money for your unfathomable crime.. will your sickness continue? Will one of you appoint yourselfs as the next "True Guru"? Trying to scam the money back you expected gary to share with you?.. Even if you do that, and if you get your money.. your own Soul will also never let any of you forget what you have done.

Dennis Holtje: As you do almost nothing for the MP(obviously shown by your $14,000 salary in 2004). What are you actually doing for the supposed "60 hours a week", that the 990 tax forms say you were working? As far as I can see, you give maybe 1 lecture a year in the NE and you wrote a book and you attend most seminars. The reason I ask is because you're not really that busy at all, infact, I bet you spend most of your time sipping margarites and enjoying your "cozy life". You know, the $31,200 MP gives you each year so you don't have to work, is sick when you call yourself a "Saint". What ever happened to a "Saint earning ther keep"? Why must you take that much money from chelas donations? Do you think because MP thinks of you as a "Saint", you deserve this free money? If you're not happy with only working enough to earn $14,000(well, probably like $26,000 now). Why not get a job? Go mow a lawn!

Back to the membership dues, in 2003 the recorded annual dues income droped to $28,530. Divided by $25 = 1141 payments, divided by 12 for the yr = 95 paying chelas??... Gary, you are getting WAY to greedy in how much dues money you're pocketing! I realize all it takes is Kari to manipulate the MP data records and it could never be traced. As far as the gov is concerned, MP only had 95 students in 2003. The only proof would be 96 Chelas testifying that they paid thier $25 per month dues in 2003. Heck, if bank records show more then 95, $25 checks cashed in each and all 12 months, from different students. That would be proof. Will that happen?...

Probably not fast enough to stop gary from dissapearing, off to live his "cushy life" in some remote part of the world with his millions.

Someone made a comment in another forum I want to share here:

From: Ted 5/27/2005 6:31 A.M.

If you are interested in graduating from 12th grade, and getting into the "real world",
There is going to be a video presentation about "MasterPath" at
AccessPhoenix.org, a public access web site.
Masterpath will show its introductory lecture by Sri Gary Olsen, possibly the first "Perfect Master" Western Culture has been blessed with, on...

Sunday 5PM (Phoenix time)

The streaming video works fine on dial-up and all you have to do is click the big icon at the top of the page ("Live WebCast") to see what is currently on.
Click "schedule" to see each day's agenda.



From: Richard 6/30/2005 12:51 A.M.

"The Gary Olsen of Masterpath is a scam artist. I went to school with him growing up and he was in trouble all the time. He was in jail for stealig cars when he was in high school and he has a terrible temper. He was on the front of our local paper in Detroit Lakes, Minnesota paper for some really big trouble with a girl friend's son who he was abusing. Not sexually but by not letting him sleep in his own house. The school bus driver reported this poor kid always getting out of an old car when he was picked up in the morning and when it was investigated, Gary was in big trouble. He always said he would get on TV and make a lot of money. Now he is taking your money ted and you are a real fool. Gary is now a millionaire like he always wanted to be. He found his gimick, you who fall for his crap."


It doesn't seem like gary has changed much from his teens. I really wonder what it is in gary, that makes him want to hurt ppl at such a deep level? Why gary? How can you keep doing this to ppl year after year? How are you able to live with yourself and what you do? I'm hoping many students of gary find this forum and see for themselves. Not just the evidence of the dues theft, but the undue amount gary pays himself and his wife, totaling $181,000 combined in 2005, and most likely well over $200,000 by now. Not to mention Dennis's astronomical 31,200 expense account.

Enough has been proven, the money's been followed. Deepcynic was right, all the truth is there. In unhidable gov tax forms. If this is investigated, which it really should be. I know MP will alter thier database, suddenly 900+ chelas will mysteriously vanish from the records(or be marked as 'non-paying' members). All the invesigators will need to do is show up at a seminar and they'll see how much paying members there really are, relative to MPs computer database.
 
Old 06-06-2009, 05:20 AM
 
309 posts, read 579,856 times
Reputation: 24
FormerChela

Thanks for the data.
I went and signed up at guidestar and I'm looking over the 2003 report.

Right now, based on what the public reports say, and the questionable claims in your post I'm left with the saying -Figures don't lie but Liars figure

For example, go to page 28 of the 2003 report
You will see that
1200 students were average per major seminar,
1000 per regional seminar
950 per each of Joy's 6 weekend classes

1700 Members got monthly mailings

etc,

My point is there seems to be a disparity in your claim of 'hiding' the membership numbers and the actual data where published membership attendance seems pretty spot on for 2003.

Now if one was trying to apply some critical thinking, like me, I might conclude that your 'math' is off because you don't understand what is being reported

So what I would do, because I'm not the kind of person to jump to conclusions, is go back through the numbers, find out what the reporting requirements are, if a 'portion' of the income, such as monthly dues, is being reported - legally, etc.

Of course I don't have the answers yet, but I've already seen enough to believe your jumping to hasty conclusions, and as usual seem pre-judiced to making the data fit your internal biases

of course, you also have not acknowledged or even discussed when you have made extraordinary claims in the past and I have provided a different and logical interpretation, so I've no illusions you will enter into any kind of discussion of this latest 'mistake' in your conclusions.
 
Old 06-06-2009, 05:54 AM
 
309 posts, read 579,856 times
Reputation: 24
OK, jeez, it only took a few minutes
Just looking at income

In Part 1 (Page 1 OF PDF)
Line 2 Program Service Revenue 743,478 - we should look at see Part vii line 93 and
for Line 3 Membership Dues 28,530 - we should see part vii line 94

If you look around you will see a note that there is even more detail on these portions in Stmts 6 (page 18 of pdf) and then on Stmnt 8 (Page 20 of pdf)

In Statement 8 (titled as FORM 990 Part 6 Explanations) you will see that Memberships dues, the $28,530 reflects ONLY the portion of dues that applies to the cost of study materials.

In short some portion of the $25 per month is applied to Line 94, and the top line #3, not the entire $25.
If you take the 1700 Students * $25 * 12 = 510000. Line 3 / Line 94 represents about 5.5% of the total dues. So 5.5% of member dues is applied ot cost of materials.

The other 94%? That would be about $482,000. I suspect it is accounted for in the Line 1d - Direct Contributions of about $705,000. In other words 94% of member dues are reported as direct public support. But thats only a guess. I doubt there was $705K in other donations from the 'public' to MP.

But I do know it means that as of this point, and only with 5 minutes of work with unbiased eyes, your math, your logic, and your nasty conclusions are therefor inaccurate.

I wonder, just sorta thinking out loud, if your analysis ends up being wrong, if the data doesn't support your egregious claims and nasty allegations, will you show the caliber of persona to perhaps even admit it? Or even apologize?

In any case we can continue. It's good to have data, isn't it.

Do you know what the seminar fees where in 2003?
I know they are $40/satsang, $120/3 satsang weekend today. Is that what they were 6 years ago when your were attending?

Say they were the same
1200 students per each of 4 Major seminars, at $120 = $576,000

1000 Students per each of 2 regional seminars at $40 =
$80,000

950 Students per each of 6 weekends with Joy at $?? =
(Never attended, don't know what the costs was for this)


The total is supposed to be in the range of $750K, so at The above rates it does seem a bit short if Joys weekend thinsg were also $120, but I suspect the 2003 actual rates/prices where lower then they are now?

Last edited by allan1015; 06-06-2009 at 06:13 AM..
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