Gary Olsen's "Master Path" - anybody familiar? (cult, married, recall)

[deepcynic]

I have spoken on this forum about Gary maligning ex-chelas... that is harmful.

[deepcynic]

Bring Gary here, I will confront him.

[Violet11]

Allan's memory of what's been posted here is, not surprisingly, selective. Though he does not recall anything other than people feeling disappointed and embarrassed, I on the other hand remember a lot of clear examples being given. There were first-hand accounts of:

-Attempts to keep teachings from the public eye, causing members to be secretive with others
-Creating confusion in the mind of followers, ie. Gary amending or 'making up' teachings as he goes along
-Inciting fear and imminent danger in followers ie. Gary's wacko bird flu apocalyptic predictions, and MP members suffering financially after following his ill-advised doomsday recommendations
-Repetitive dishonesty on the part of Gary, and asking followers to participate in the dishonesty, such as the scripted "Introduction to MasterPath" video, telling members to pretend they're new seekers in the video
-Encouraging an unhealthy focus on Gary's image since MasterPath's inception, ie. members receiving large pictures of him as rewards, etc.
-MP members patterning their appearance after Gary and Joy
-Gradual alienation from friends and family, and Gary stating that these friends/family are not evolved enough to understand his greatness
-Misappropriation of non-profit organizational funds to include elaborate vacations and purchasing illegal drugs
-Robbing individuality and follower's personal choices, such as Gary discouraging members to marry, berating of those who question Gary, and requesting submission to the master first and foremost above all things
-Attempts to force a member into an initiation for which she/he did not feel ready
-Creating an army to fight detractors, ie. asking members to monitor internet mentions of MP and do 'damage control' by writing glowing reviews of Gary

And that's just off the top of my head. When considering what 'harm' is, a broader perspective might offer Allan and others clarity. It's not just about Gary being cruel and hurting his follower's feelings, though he clearly does. In a more general sense, it's about Gary creating an atmosphere of fear, submission, and secrecy. Which ultimately harms followers as well as their loved ones. It's about his misrepresentation of himself to his followers, to the public, and to the government - and the harm that is done to one's trust in Gary and in the path due to that misrepresentation.

It is also remarkable that Allan has provided absolutely no good reason for anyone to believe that Gary is the 'enlightened being' he claims to be in the first place. It's fraud, plain and simple.

[deepcynic]

Violet, I love you! (in and internet board sense , my gf would have it no other way)

I grow very tired of allan and find myself not up to dealing with his 'selective memory' and his obfuscation. You summarize this pretty well.

I do have more specifics of how he has done harm to an ex-chela but am saving that for a more appropriate forum, hopefully the courts.

There is ample evidence of the harm he causes here on this thread, allan just choses a strategy that many other apologists and defenders of evil have chosen. Attack, attack, attack. Repeat false crap over and over in the hopes that some will believe it.

I have been very clear that I am attacking Gary and MasterPath, for many of the reasons you have summarized and more.

allan is not worth my effort except to incite him into more of his nonsense that proves that, at least some of, MPs followers are so besotted with Gary's BS that they cannot see facts, evidence or even think clearly.

I have maintained throughout that one of the harms of MP is to all taxpayers. Abuse of the tax laws by hiding behind religion when it is actually a lucrative business. True, that is yet to be proven, but the evidence is there. I feel much the same about the Catholic Church but they are much too entrenched to bring down. Gary may not be so lucky.

[Violet11]

Thanks deepcynic. I definitely support your purpose and hope Gary is brought down.

With regard to Allan, I could have more sympathy for his state of delusion if he wasn't so arrogant. And just a small matter of clarification for those who might be reading, Allan wrote:

not the difference between Liar! and Liar?

But Allan edited that post after the fact. There was originally no question mark after 'liar' in the post, I have the original post in my email notification and was struck by the venomous way he'd responded. The anger and childishness with which he sometimes writes is telling, and is unlikely to convey any evidence to others of enlightenment or personal progress on MP.

[seamus_the_second]

That guy is actually a bit scary I think.

[deepcynic]

allan has continually called me a bigot, and attacked me in other ways. I care not one bit what he says about me. It is what he 'says' about MasterPath that is the important thing.

I think you might get my drift.

[allan1015]

I wonder, given the strength of your argument, cant you just stand by your truth? do you have to twist my words in the process?

Also, please don't wait for me to provide any proof of anyones enlightenment. That is not anything I ever agreed to, nor can it even be done. What would be remarkable is if anyone could prove anyone else's enlightenment. Can you? Calling it 'remarkable' is disingenuous at best, perhaps ignorant.

What I presented was a summary of sorts, my view of the kinds of harm that had been mentioned. I also discussed that I suspected that a great deal of this 'harm' was questionable in its depth and also lacking of any discussions of the 'victims' role.

Your list doesn't change that analysis, not at first read. Setting side the large issue of how distorted spiritually biased the lists is, it is hard to draw harm out of that list in any direct way. Its a very broad list. It would be the effort of taking a 'why I hate MP' list to an 'MP causes harm' discussion.

As you would expect me to point out the list is all one sided, using highly charged phrasing, an all the points have been addressed before. The bulk of any real disagreement boils down to differences in spiritual beliefs, as we have discussed.

So unless we are to go into a point by point discussion of your list -something neither of us wants to do, I tried to focus in on the last paragraphs and cull out more specific statements about out the harms done by MP

This was the first set:
-being cruel and hurting students feelings,
-harm of violated trust, of being lied to

And this is basically the type of harm I was referring to as one gets in a relationship. These are also the types of harm I was saying are rife for students to have responsibility even cause and creation in some of these harms.

I still follow with my previous points that foofoo and feel good gurus are not required, by tradition 'hurting my feelings' is accepted practice. So, an honest assessment of your accusations would take much more work then the simple allegations you have pointed out. Lastly, we do not have any crime rates, % of students, harmful feelings, etc. And we are left with any allegation is damaging.

Frankly I had those forms of 'harm' done to me in boot camp and early years in service. I was treated like ****, pointed out I was scum, lied to by recruiters, etc. of course that was a program designed to affect me mentally, so I guess we should expect more sever energies. So Ill try this:

Frankly - I think a love that cheated on me, lied, or living through a good 12 years of alcoholic partner, or my dog getting hit by car and dies in my arms sat, those are things in life that have caused me more harm then being 'chastised' and made to feel bad.

There was one other grouping:
-creating an atmosphere of fear, submission, and secrecy.
Which ultimately harms followers as well as their loved ones.

Sri Gary doesn't create such and atmosphere, though I'm sure you can smell one if your looking for it. Whats more interesting is the phrase 'ultimately harms' - again the distancing from cause and eventual effect.

Look, calling anyones spiritual path a Destructive and Harmful cult is a serious thing. I don't believe your list of things goes far when filling out the check list of any reputable anti-cult personage.

I am just explaining why I can find my self at piece with your concerns.

[allan1015]

So there is no confusion, you are a bigot, of the spiritual sort

Violet is of a different sort, she twists and distorts so much better then you. She is one sweet acid, who treats those she is mad at, with all the venom she pretends she is above.

At least your bigotry is obvious and easily seen

But thats fine, your both fun to play with, a cute couple. Sorta like Bush and Chaney.

Selective memory? - nothing has changed - I am still waiting for a discussion on harm.
Bruised egos? people looking for a scapegoat? all possible here as any interpratation.

But I see you all want to change the subject, again. Oh well.

[allan1015]

Thanks anyway for trying to put some description of harm together

It's clear its the same ol'e stuff, and while it bears mote looking into, those who have already made up their minds wield speculation as proof, and spiritual beliefs as truth

The same ol'e tricks as well, the attackers blame others for attacking and those misdirectiosn going on.

I've tried to learn about myself, seeing what answers, responses came up. Comparing stuff with my own experiences and truth, my spiritual belief systems, etc.

But the learning opportunities are becoming to small to account for the time and energy.
The overly negative and hostile energies have an affect as well
Sans any new or interesting discussions I find myself done here

Please add your lasts posts, have the last word, Be Right!

For me I go forward into MP with my eyes wide open, much more so then anyone I know, and happily jump in to learn, to grow, and to have that inner and souls journey we all desire.

So long and thanks for all the fish