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Old 05-04-2009, 11:18 AM
 
309 posts, read 581,031 times
Reputation: 24

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Unlike someone deeply cynical I have apparently done ton's more research and evaluation then you have into MP. As noted the past four years have been a mix of external examination as well as walking the walk, learning from the inside so to speak.

I am quite comfortable saying, confident saying, that my amount of facts, research, goes beyond yours, in spades. I am also happy to report that I quite like the teachings, which at thier core are not even MP specific, I resonate well with the way Gary has put together a westernized practice around the core teachings. I mean I looked at Eck's website and I just do not get attracted and even repulsed by that expression of the same core truths/teachings. IN any case I appreciate what he has done, I never would have followed this teaching with the Eck way, or the indian heritage of vegan, celibacy, hours of practice a day, etc etc.


Just chanting follow the money is well silly. If you have proof, offer it. If you have done the work and know where the money leads, you have a moral obligation to present that. Yet you don't.
Whats that about?

I say, be a man, step up, speak out, not this is whimpy stuff where you throw insults and inneuendos so you can continue your hate and anger at things you dont agree with.

 
Old 05-10-2009, 06:49 PM
 
1,628 posts, read 4,042,564 times
Reputation: 542
OK, Gary smokes pot and cigarettes, he takes lavish Mexican vacations, he plagiarizes his materials and makes his wife and minions edit them.

He is a fraud.
 
Old 05-10-2009, 07:22 PM
 
309 posts, read 581,031 times
Reputation: 24
Does he really smoke pot? Wow - That like ranks him up there in my book. nothing like a down to earth guru. I would love to take a hit or two with him, wouldn't need more then that, then go for a contemplative walk in the desert, cool as ****.

Oh wait, this is supposed to be a judgment of your where pot smoking is un-spiritual, un holy, that no truly enlightend person would actually imbibe.

What is a lavish Mexican vacation? I mean how is a lavish vacation different then a regular vacation?
Oh wait, this is the part where your judgment is that true gurus should live only austere, almost peasant lives, right? Enjoying the material world, in any way is a sign of non-enlightenment to you?

How would you recognize a guru if you were looking at them? Would they not do some things, do other things, wear certain clothes. You have many prejudices in this area, have you noticed that?

Is pot smoking or Mexican vacations on the Harmful / Destructive cult check off list?

The plagerizing stuff is old news, like 10+ years ago, been addressed, corrected, apologized for, no one else in the world has any complaints. In fact the fact that it was handled, public apologies, etc, taken seriously, not avoided, stood up to like a man - thats all positive in my book.

This is just silly stuff because the facts are you don't have anything else.
And obviously you don't believe in second chances, that people make mistakes, etc.

"Makes his wife do ..."
What an idiotic and judgmental thing to say. What do you know of Gary and his wifes relationship?
Perhaps her skills are better suited to editing. I know I've asked my son, an English major, too edit stuff for me.

Are you under some impressions that Gurus are superman, that they should be experts and good at everything? Do you know what it takes to run an organization like MP? Are you proposing it should be a one man thing, where the guru just waves his magic wand, uses psychic powers to edit documents, while simultaneously licking envelopes and balancing the books.

I believe an organization, book writing and publishing and all the other bits and pieces, takes people, staff, help. The idea that you choose to spin this as a negative - well it just to me shows how desperate you are. Desperate to be right, desperate to prove gurus are bad, desperate to project your own beliefs onto others in the name of protection and honor.

Like I said before, do the work. Be a man, step up, give the facts.
Not this is whimpy stuff where you throw insults and inneuendos so you can continue your hate and anger at things you dont agree with.
 
Old 05-10-2009, 07:53 PM
 
1,628 posts, read 4,042,564 times
Reputation: 542
What he does is against his teachings, that is the point.
 
Old 05-10-2009, 07:54 PM
 
1,628 posts, read 4,042,564 times
Reputation: 542
There is no work that I have to do, I am not duped by him or any other sham guru.

I only raise the questions for those that have a brain.
 
Old 05-10-2009, 08:12 PM
 
1,628 posts, read 4,042,564 times
Reputation: 542
This whole thing with alan is soooo entertaining!

I put in a few seconds to raise the issue of the sham that Gary perpetrates and he spends his time and words battling me...

Why do you think that is?

He challenges me, but has he looked at where all the money goes?
 
Old 05-10-2009, 08:21 PM
 
1,628 posts, read 4,042,564 times
Reputation: 542
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money,
Follow the money...
 
Old 05-10-2009, 08:23 PM
 
1,628 posts, read 4,042,564 times
Reputation: 542
Stand up alan, be a man. Follow the money.
 
Old 05-10-2009, 11:49 PM
 
309 posts, read 581,031 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepcynic View Post
What he does is against his teachings, that is the point.
I understand this issue, if it were true I would probably see it as you.

The part that I don't see as true is your assertion of what the MP teaching is concerning smoking a splif?

I mean if Sri Gary did manage to enjoy mother nature while kicked back one sunny day ;

- are you saying he teaches abstinence, vows of cannabis celibacy?
- are you saying a guru shouldn't break the law
- are you saying such behavior is un-spiritual?
- A spiritual leader would be perfect and smoking a joint is not what a perfect person would do?

perhaps all the above? Can you be more specific about what teaching he is violating?

My impression is that you don't know what the 'teaching' is around this, do you? about other vices? and distractions?

Let me ask this, what is the most important thing, in terms of MP teachings, what should be the most important thing? Is it how much you are drinking, how many joints you had today? How much time you spend thinking about some girl, boy, sex, etc?

To me I don't see much sense for any path to focus on what one should not do? What we resist persists. Do vows of denial, really work? I don't find MP teachings have explicitly told me not to do anything, certainly not encouraging such distractions, I find a proper perspective where there is much more energy focused on what I should be doing. I wont attend an anti-war rally, but call me when you have a pro peace rally.




How much of this is us not agreeing on priorities, whats important, what isn't important in the external behavior of a guru, a teacher?
 
Old 05-11-2009, 12:00 AM
 
309 posts, read 581,031 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepcynic View Post
I only raise the questions for those that have a brain.
Thank you for raising these questions for people such as me

I appreciate the questions, what I find my self at odds with is your conclusions, much more so then with your questions.

IMHO, while you have raised some questions, they are heavily mired with assumptions, ones left undiscussed, and more to the point you have it seems to me made more assertions and statements of opinion then anything else
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