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Old 09-21-2010, 04:28 PM
 
309 posts, read 580,741 times
Reputation: 24

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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanadau View Post
Allan 1015, What is that signature Allan? The date you started on MP. Don't you see how lame that is when everything in your life becomes related back to MP.
No its not related to MP.
What I don't quite understand is the pattern of asking a question, assuming the answer, and then going on to comment on it as if it was true. And comment is weak word, admonish, scold, insult - all are part of this pattern of asking questions you don't care for an answer to. (It is in fact my birthday)

 
Old 09-21-2010, 04:48 PM
 
309 posts, read 580,741 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Kicking View Post
Oh but Allan you are complaining, that is all you do is complain about our viewpoints not coinciding with yours.
More Hyperbole I guess, thats is 'all' I do?
I don't complain or find any issue with you having your opinion, I accept and actually expect there to be ex-chelas and detractors of all kinds. Its quite natural and if it didn't exist I would be wary as hell.

I do complain about the treatment, the attack, the lack of honest dialog, the insults, the demeaning that occurs in spades.

Anyway no need to go except to point out that your quoted statementis an example of the lies/twist/misrepresentations that abound and that I do complain about.

Oh, and I fully accept that your angry and mad and seeking destruction of something. I take no issue with you having your side of thinsg, never did, not once. But you refuse to be 'honest' in how that shades and distorts your view. You will go on and on about how my passion and love are shading my view. You see no issue with calling me blinded, robot, a victim of my beliefs, yet do not see that you are the same.

And yes I complain that such is unbalanced, because it is

Quote:
You Allan are just not seeing the wisdom of shutting up.
And you do?

Quote:
your rants against those that do not believe as you do.
That is so much the kettle calling the pan black. What hypocrisy
You truly really don't feel you and those of like opinion are ranting/attacking those that do not believe as you do?

Quote:
Little do you realize that you turn so many away from the MP with what it is that you write.
Yes little do I realize that, nor am I sure I care. I wonder though wouldn't that be counter example to end_of_faith saying my efforts might yield me a personal call from Sri Gary? It would seem that you two at least have a different view of the results of my energies here.
 
Old 09-21-2010, 04:53 PM
 
268 posts, read 457,703 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanadau View Post
In conclusion, Therefore, worship of anything other than the Two Faces of the Master brings defeat, for the personality will not reveal itself nor give up its false rulership unless the Eternal Son has ordained it to happen. We should depend on the Master in both forms and nothing else, until our own Mastership has been handed to us by the Inner Master in Sach Kand.
Get by these two "personality cults" prior to the spiritual practice or just as it begins, and the spiritual exercise will take on new meaning, bringing to you the lift and inspiration that are needed to live in this earth world. It brings peace love and knowingness that this can never be taken away. Of course it ends, I love you all dearly.

What the f.......

I actually spent years trying to make sense out of this.
?!?!?! What the F indeed ?!?!?!

Obviously I can be of no help deconstructing that catastrophe. So I can only say that from an outsider's perspective, it's probably the biggest crock of caca I've ever seen. And whoever wrote it seems a little schizo.

Hope someone can help. Thanks for posting, Xanadau.
 
Old 09-21-2010, 05:25 PM
 
268 posts, read 457,703 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015 View Post
Among a long list of other adjectives and faults you and your friends here have told me over and over. I suspect that an analysis would show that some 90% of every post to me has some reference to some personality trait of mine, primarily negative.
Wonder why that is?

And why did you think I was in Connecticut? Please do share. Because it unnerves me a bit that you're trying to guess where I live. Sorta creepy...what's the point of where I am? And as I said, you're not even warm with that guess. Perplexing.
 
Old 09-21-2010, 06:08 PM
 
175 posts, read 424,874 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015 View Post
end_of_faith, the point I was obviously making reference to was the one where you called me a Moron. That point was about Pot Smoking. I will come back to bird flu and the other things when I get through this.

Obviously, of course I am such as Moron as you say, I don't believe Pot to be a drug. What else could it be. is it possible to do this without these little digs, lies, spins?

As I asked earlier, can you bring out something specific form MP about 2cd initiation? Frankly I don't trust your paraphrasing.

You called me a Moron, to say anything else, your cure wordplay is being disingenuous and another reason I find you to be untrust worthy

[b]

I tried to reply to your directive, to smoke it so to speak and reflect on it, I did think thats what you were asking me. To think and comment on it.

Oh for christ sake of course you didn't specifically say be concerned about this. Are you really that stract on exact phrasing?

Anyway, in my response you belittled and gave me **** basically.

Now you refuse to enlighten and explain what you meant by it?

Seems and feel like a setup of sort,
If I don't comment on it, you'll call me out for not being responsive
If I do comment you say I'm wrong, with gusto
If I ask you to explain where I'm wrong, you just say you don't have to.

What specifically was the point of throwing that into the discussion?

This one paragraph you presented in some context of being important, significant, and yet it is so hard to get a simple discussion about it. Without going off in all kinds of places. We can do better.

I have petitioned on the inner, I come away, so far, not caring. I don't care if Gary smokes and occassional splif, or has anal sex, masterbates, gets mad at his wife, has words with step sons, or a whole host of other 'human' things. And I even believe he can do all that while being in the 'presence of'

Again, thats where I am at right now.
Okay, Allan, I can appreciate where "you're at right now." But... at the risk of you taking this next comment as a dig, insult, etc.... please get off the moron cross.

In just the above quote, you referred to me as "disingenuous, liar, and untrustworthy." In previous posts you have characterized me as "deceitful".... you have either inferred or called others on this thread "liars," and of course, our all time favorite: bigots.

I'm sure that I could scan the entire thread and compile a list that might surprise you, but suffice it to say that "my cute wordplay" is anything but disingenuous.

It is extremely difficult to hold a conversation with you on any level Allan. You demand "proof" yet provide not a single attribute of a "sat guru" by which a person can assess the guru's efficacy. Not one in over 150 pages and 1000's of posts. You offer no proof of the veracity of the path or your "master."

You dilute the conversation by asking a person a question and then telling that person that his/her response/answer doesn't matter anyway. Case in point: see your recent response to Mystic. You didn't even give a second thought to his response. You zeroed in on one word, and brushed everything he said aside. You do that to everyone. So, while there is a lot that I could share on this thread, I won't because I don't care to have your viewpoint smeared on it.

I don't have the time or inclination to respond to every single one of your queries or reactive retorts, but I'll take the time to interact with you one last time. Let's see how you respond.

Frankly, some of your responses are perplexing. E.g., "is it possible to do this without these little digs, lies, spins?" I have no idea what you are talking about, nor do I care to carry on a fruitless exchange of inanity with you.

I'm sure that this will go right over your head, but you ask: "are you really that strack on exact phrasing?" I don't know Allan, are you? You are the one who is calling me a liar, deceitful, untrustworthy, and spinning the truth re: the 2nd initiation. So, let's call it fair.

RE: me refusing to enlighten and explain. What? No, Allan, from where I sit you refuse to "see" anything beyond your viewpoint. Fair enough?

The simple truth of "where you're at right now" is this: you are not concerned with your "master's" thoughts, words, deeds, or actions. Why? Your cavalier attitude is astonishing considering the great emphasis placed on the "master's" role in the chela's life. But, that's where "you're at right now." I get it.

Re: my reference to you receiving call from him....in the words of your "master": it was facetious. Facetious in the sense that your master only calls when he wants or needs something, or if damage control is in order. It's not about you and your sincere desire for truth and spirituality...it's all about him and his need to be & play "God" in the lives of those who love him.

PS. I have no idea what you mean by "occasional splif"
 
Old 09-21-2010, 06:22 PM
 
63,809 posts, read 40,077,272 times
Reputation: 7871
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015 View Post
My beliefs are that times are different, that its no longer the guru on the mountain top, its now husband, with wife and kids, its no longer sitting under a tree listening to your guru, its infrastructure and technology, its hotels and planes and office workers, publishing costs, etc.
None of this has anything to do with achieving spiritual enlightenment . . . it is worldly flim flam.
Quote:
So, again for me, I don't see anyway around the notion of money being part of the picture, just cant see it. To me your ideas are romantic and I guess antiquated. No insult intended just how I see it.
I get that you don't care if you have to pay to get to the goal . . . the problem is that the goal you seek is not at the end of the path you have chosen. It is a complete fraud . . . so not only are you paying you are not going to get there.
Quote:
And please lets not go down the road about each line item, olive trees are not spiritual, but media servers for video broadcasting are ok, none of that is about the primary issue of money and payment being a sign of a true path or not. I mean lets at least get closure on that one thing first.
There are very few things that can point to a true "master" . . .but one that definitely debunks one . . . is concern for money and using the path as the way to earn money and worldly possessions.
 
Old 09-21-2010, 06:58 PM
 
309 posts, read 580,741 times
Reputation: 24
end_of_faith

Ill try to be as clear as possible

You still haven't resolved the assertion that there is a Vow of not Smoking Pot - which you claimed

This bothers me, cause it feels allot like you wont admit to making a mistake, or know that you twisted the requirements and are avoiding clearing it up. This are my guesses at what is going on, I am not asserting any as the truth

I said I find you untrustworthy etc - I can't trust what you say because of things like this. Specifically Ive observed:
1- make statements about MP teachings that are not true
2- sit by while other make statements the same (this is what is meant by refusing to enlighten and explain.)

None of which I mean as an accusation, it is an attempt to explain what I am seeing, my issues with you so to speak. Not being able to trust the veracity of your information is pretty much a detriment to my being 'open' to the information.

Also, you've not explained the post about pot smokers going on a guilt trip

As it was presented as a serious thing to consider, I don't understand why its not important enough to clear up. This kind of thing, and this is nt the first, is another reason adding to my inability to be open to what you say.

Quote:
Allan, from where I sit you refuse to "see" anything beyond your viewpoint. Fair enough?
For where you sit, how are others here doing in willingness to see beyond their viewpoint?
My impression is that all of us are unwilling in this regard. So I wonder if your implying that this closed mindedness applies to me only? See I don't quite understand why you would make this point if it was common to everyone? - and I would disagree that s_k for example is open to seeing beyond his view that MP should be destroyed.

a splif is a type of joint, occasional splif = occasional joint

Quote:
The simple truth of "where you're at right now" is this: you are not concerned with your "master's" thoughts, words, deeds, or actions. Why?
Is that your truth or your interpretation of my words? I never said that or meant it.

I don't know if this is a misunderstanding, not listening, hearing what you want, or a purposed misrepresentation. It goes back to the veracity issues, as well as quality of communication.

From my perspective every time I make what are to me honest attempt to discuss, clear up, correct, - all that happens is off tangent responses, more issues, etc. Again from my perspective.

I am more then happy to walk as slow as I need, explain and clear up anything Ive done to confuse, reach some common language, etc.

Can we just address one subject - the Vow for Pot Smoking, then we can move to one you pick. Its just suggestion, I don't know how else to proceed and don't want to throw my hands up in frustration.

Peace be with you
 
Old 09-21-2010, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Wherever I am
28 posts, read 47,043 times
Reputation: 28
Question Re: Personality Worship

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanadau View Post
This month, I would like to discuss the importance on understanding the phrase "personality cult" and what it means both objectively and subjectively. Coupled with this explanation, I would like to briefly review the spiritual exercises and show how this new understanding of personality worship either augments or diminishes the value and reach of our spiritual endeavors.

In general, any path that does not have access to the Sound Current is a personality cult. Without the sound, all spiritual practice is reduced to the santana flow, which of course is comprised of the MEST qualities. Without the Sound the higher trinity within our own constitution which are the soul, spirit, and God components, are not invoked or brought into a dynamic manifestation within our own unfoldment. We are left with our own lower bodies and the inherent dualistic vibration that composes these lower identities.

While in the lower bodies and attempting to unfold within this spectrum or wavelength, the attention has only three minds in which to actively engage and understand the meaning of spirituality. As all chelas know, the three minds could also be described as the ego, subtle ego, and the personality. There is a higher and lower aspect to each one of these, but even within the higher manifestation, Kal usually has his way. It is these three false identifications that impose this "personality worship" upon not only the Outer and Inner Masters, but the higher trinity of the ruling entity or organism.

Now to worship anything...through the construct of emotions, mind, or memory that is currently within the MEST worlds, automatically becomes a personality cult. Whether the object is animate or inanimate makes little difference, for worship is being employed, and this worship is outside or external to the inner sanctum of the chela. A personality cult can also be defined as devoted attachment to a person, and in viewing all existent paths prevalent in our world today, we find that every path is sorely attached to a personality or person whether it be the founder, or the current representative of the respective path.

Therefore, an "objective personality cult" is worshiping any figure both other than yourself and outside of yourself, making them an authority over your Self. Huge amounts of adoration, worship, and praise are heaped upon these founding personalities and the seekers of the world beseech these personalities hoping for their own redemption and salvation. In doing this, the seeker unknowingly defies an external agency, continually attempting to breathe life into this dead image. The founder is not currently with his respective devotee and so this worship goes for naught, except in offering some illusory balm for the seeker's troubled heart and mind.

A subjective personality cult" is far more subtle........The chelas are confident that they understand the objective limitations of a personality cult, and they do, but they fail to take this far enough and fall into the snare of worshiping their own personalities.

Part B.....In the beginning, it is natural for the chela to worship the Outer Master, for the transcendency of the Shabda Master is too profound and dubious at this time. If the Outer Master is a True Sat Guru, then he is not really a human being, but the word made flesh. This circumvents the danger of giving your worship to an outside agency. The Sat Guru will take this worship and refashion and reeducate it to make it fit for the inner worship of the Inner Master. Therefore worship of the Outer Master is the same as worshiping the inner Master. They are different, yes, but the protection and guidance are there to safely cross this infinite abyss between internal and external.

In conclusion, Therefore, worship of anything other than the Two Faces of the Master brings defeat, for the personality will not reveal itself nor give up its false rulership unless the Eternal Son has ordained it to happen. We should depend on the Master in both forms and nothing else, until our own Mastership has been handed to us by the Inner Master in Sach Kand.

Get by these two "personality cults" prior to the spiritual practice or just as it begins , and the spiritual exercise will take on new meaning, bringing to you the lift and inspiration that are needed to live in this earth world. It brings peace love and knowingness that this can never be taken away. Of course it ends, I love you alldearly.

I actually spent years trying to make sense out of this .
I see what you mean Xanadau, when I read the excerpts, on the surface, they are confusing and contradictory.

Part A: Anything that does not have access to the Sound Current is a "personality cult". Then goes on about the 3 False identifications imposing "personality worship" upon the Outer Master, Inner Master and higher trinity of the entity: which is what chelas practice in MasterPath (as a personality cult)! Worshipping anything within the MEST (A Word directly taken out of Scientology meaning: Mass, Energy, Space and Time) worlds (e.g. the Outer Master: Gary) with devoted attachment, again, becomes a personality cult. Next, an "objective personality cult" is described, as exactly what the chela undertakes in MasterPath, but does not say whether this is desirable or not. There is the "subjective personality cult" where the chela feels they understand the limitations of the personality cult but start to worship their own personalities, which is wrong (which could be interpreted as the worship of your own Inner Master, which is the right thing to do if you seek self-realization).

Part B: In the beginning the chela will worship the Outer Master (Gary, as part and parcel of an objective personality cult), before being able to transcend to the Shabda or Inner Master. If the Outer Master is a true Sat Guru then he is not a human being (Gary is an "everyday" Human Being: if it is born like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, breathes like a duck, makes mistakes like a duck, and ends up dying like a duck; what else could it be?). This "human" test will allow a chela to circumvent the worship of something on the outer, an outside agency, that is false (Gary is thereby incriminating himself here?). Only a Sat Guru can refashion and reeducate the worship of the Outer Master as being the same as the worship of the Inner Master. You can interpret this in a myriad of ways. What it means to me is: when you recognize yourself as your own true teacher you can revere your outer physical self mastery with the same regard as your inner knowing of who you are - the two faces of You, the Master.

When I study on my own, as an observer on the "outside", the MasterPath material (like these excerpts of Xanadau's), I do get my own sensible meanings from them. It is there for me, in black and white. I realize that is not the same as being a chela on the "inside" and accepting everything as interpreted for you by an authority outside of yourself. It leads me wonder if Gary actually may have deliberately writen his material this way (unconsciously, at least). So when a chela eventually reaches that state of awareness, where they come to "see it": decide they have found their True Inner Master, to put the guru Gary behind them and continue without him (a Sat Guru incognito)? Then again, aren't we all each others teachers . .....and just don't know it (as Sat Gurus)?

Last edited by Zeeker0; 09-21-2010 at 07:28 PM..
 
Old 09-21-2010, 07:24 PM
 
309 posts, read 580,741 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
None of this has anything to do with achieving spiritual enlightenment . . . it is worldly flim flam.
I your worldview. In mine they have everything to do with 'achieving' in todays world. Since your using your worldview to proof that MP is a fraud, I find it incumbent on you to proof, establish there are true paths to achieving enlightenment and how they work.

I've outlined the basic principles of my view before - spirituality evolves, enlightenment evolves - how we achieve such evolves, teaching methods of the past don't have to be hung onto, its not invalid or against principles to do it different.

Quote:
. . . the problem is that the goal you seek is not at the end of the path you have chosen. . . . so not only are you paying you are not going to get there.
If your right I understand thats the 'problem' - and at risk would me about $400 a year and my time and effort.

Offsetting that is what I am learning and experiencing. For me, right now, if I sat back and did the math - if I ask the question is MP/Sri Gary was shown to be a fraud today, right now, I would not feel I had lost out in the deal.

Quote:
... one that definitely debunks one . . . is concern for money and using the path as the way to earn money and worldly possessions.
Again, you keep on holding this up as a Gold Standard, but have nothing but your view to establish such. You can say say say it, and wish wish wish it - but thats isn't going to win me over.
 
Old 09-21-2010, 07:32 PM
 
309 posts, read 580,741 times
Reputation: 24
MEST M = Matter not Mass, at least thats how I always use it.

Quote:
...and accepting everything as interpreted for you by an authority outside of yourself.
I dont understand that comment? It seems inconsistant with what I do or have been taught?
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