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Old 09-21-2010, 07:40 PM
 
64,024 posts, read 40,331,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015 View Post
Quote:
Mystic:
... one that definitely debunks one . . . is concern for money and using the path as the way to earn money and worldly possessions.
Again, you keep on holding this up as a Gold Standard, but have nothing but your view to establish such. You can say say say it, and wish wish wish it - but thats isn't going to win me over.
I do . . . hoping you will recognize the true spiritual goal in it . . . for yourself. Whatever other goal(s) you seek . . . cannot be found as part of spirituality. Worldly goals and Spiritual goals are opposites . . . but achieving spiritual goals can enhance your experiencing of worldly things. It doesn't work vice versa.

 
Old 09-21-2010, 07:44 PM
 
175 posts, read 425,503 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015 View Post
end_of_faith

Ill try to be as clear as possible

You still haven't resolved the assertion that there is a Vow of not Smoking Pot - which you claimed

This bothers me, cause it feels allot like you wont admit to making a mistake, or know that you twisted the requirements and are avoiding clearing it up. This are my guesses at what is going on, I am not asserting any as the truth
From my perspective, there is nothing for me to resolve. You have the "issue" with what I said, and I stand by what I said. Unfortunately, I no longer have any MP materials, so I am unable to quote the Profile or other sources from all the years that I spent on the path, and since the "works" were a daily part of my life Allan, I'm fairly certain on the interpretation that I offered as part of a chela's perception. I believe in the Profile under "Requirements for the 2nd Initiation" it clearly said "the chela must be drug-free." Now, is my paraphrasing incorrrect? Probably, but are you that strack on exact phrasing, Allan?

I have no problem with admitting I made a mistake. The biggest and most regrettable mistake in my life is the day I met and accepted Gary Olsen as a "master."

You are correct in that there is probably nowhere in the "current" MP writings where it states "no pot." However, in the first Book II, I do recall "marijuana" being listed since we had to edit the slang terminology for pot, speed, etc. Unlike you, Allan, I do consider marijuana to be a drug. So, hopefully, that is an adequate response to clearing things up for you. If not, not sure that I can say or do much more to help you out on that issue. I could also share what your "outer master" himself has said, but it would mean little to nothing to you, and you would just continue to discard our experience as a "spurned lover quarrel" or some other such nonsense.

Quote:
I said I find you untrustworthy etc - I can't trust what you say because of things like this. Specifically Ive observed:
1- make statements about MP teachings that are not true
2- sit by while other make statements the same (this is what is meant by refusing to enlighten and explain.)

None of which I mean as an accusation, it is an attempt to explain what I am seeing, my issues with you so to speak. Not being able to trust the veracity of your information is pretty much a detriment to my being 'open' to the information.
No, I haven't made statements about the MP teachings that are not true. I've made statements about the MP teachings based on my experience, and I stand by them.

I do not consider it my "job" to censor another person, or to deny them their right to share their viewpoint based on their experience.

Quote:
Also, you've not explained the post about pot smokers going on a guilt trip

As it was presented as a serious thing to consider, I don't understand why its not important enough to clear up. This kind of thing, and this is nt the first, is another reason adding to my inability to be open to what you say.
I believe what I stated is self-evident, and for me to explain it further is fruitless with you, Allan. That is not an insult. It's the conclusion arrived at based on interacting with you, and reading your rebuttals. Even more important is that you have *proven* to me that no matter what is said, you will take the opportunity to shoo-pooh, demean, and shrug it off as unimportant, so would I bother *opening* my inmost thoughts and sentiments with you?

Quote:
For where you sit, how are others here doing in willingness to see beyond their viewpoint?
My impression is that all of us are unwilling in this regard. So I wonder if your implying that this closed mindedness applies to me only? See I don't quite understand why you would make this point if it was common to everyone? - and I would disagree that s_k for example is open to seeing beyond his view that MP should be destroyed.
I cannot speak for S_K. Perhaps you should ask him that question.

Quote:
a splif is a type of joint, occasional splif = occasional joint
LOL... well, I would hardly characterize his daily use or attachment as "occasional".....

Quote:
I don't know if this is a misunderstanding, not listening, hearing what you want, or a purposed misrepresentation. It goes back to the veracity issues, as well as quality of communication.

From my perspective every time I make what are to me honest attempt to discuss, clear up, correct, - all that happens is off tangent responses, more issues, etc. Again from my perspective.

I am more then happy to walk as slow as I need, explain and clear up anything Ive done to confuse, reach some common language, etc.

Can we just address one subject - the Vow for Pot Smoking, then we can move to one you pick. Its just suggestion, I don't know how else to proceed and don't want to throw my hands up in frustration.
don't know if this clears things up for you or not.

I believe we can all relate to the "off tangent responses, more issues, etc."

take care Allan

Last edited by end_of_faith; 09-21-2010 at 08:20 PM..
 
Old 09-21-2010, 07:44 PM
 
1,628 posts, read 4,048,511 times
Reputation: 542
allan, you are weak because you have been taken in by the charlatan Gary Olsen and his sham 'Master Path'. That you cannot see or understand that only underscores how Gary dupes his followers.

It really is that simple.
 
Old 09-21-2010, 07:53 PM
 
309 posts, read 581,539 times
Reputation: 24
OK, I had a chance to sit and read the excerpt, and while a bit wishing that the full thing was there, I don't find it confusing or contradictory

To Me it basically says
Its ok to worship Sat Guru as Inner or Outer master - because they are Sound, Shabda
Worship of the Outer Master is a start - it will lead to the Inner Master

It is not Ok to worship things not of Sound, people or things outside of oneself
Or to worship ones own self/personality. (where self is different then Self)

Xan, I don't mean this any demeaning way, but whats not to understand? Or what do you find confusing?

I anticipate some reaction to the word Worship - it doesn't mean, its taught to not mean, things like worship of the personality, kissing the feet (or any part), seeking things touched by the master, and lots of other practices one can find in other Guru paths. I just caution that one should not jump on the word Worship.
 
Old 09-21-2010, 08:08 PM
 
175 posts, read 425,503 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015 View Post
I just caution that one should not jump on the word Worship.
that's like telling someone not to think of a blue elephant....

in my "cute word play" way.... worship is just another word for horse whip...

Last edited by end_of_faith; 09-21-2010 at 08:12 PM.. Reason: to avert flame-war with chelas defending what they don't know
 
Old 09-21-2010, 11:01 PM
 
1,628 posts, read 4,048,511 times
Reputation: 542
violet, end of faith, MysticPHD:

I applaud you all for trying to pound some sense into such a lemming as allan.

And, for anyone else looking into this thread it is likely a good way to illustrate the sham that is Master Path.

However, folks like him will only realize the error of following the scam artist Gary if and when they wake up and see what a money grubbing bastard he really is.

I know this because the one I love went through all this. Believe me, she knows what a fake Gary is.
 
Old 09-22-2010, 01:45 AM
 
309 posts, read 581,539 times
Reputation: 24
e_o_f

I made a statement that there was no demand for, or Vow to quit Smoking Pot, you told me I was wrong (snidely as well but we can drop that)

I thought this should be a clear issue to clear up, not just because I was called wrong, but because the smoking pot issues come up here often and I feel clarity on such a basic aspect as this is important. Also, your supposed to be the local and most learned expert on MP, not your words, and it would seem you should be, or want to be correct.

Based on postings of MP material by Violet, the fact that I made the 2cd vow a year ago, my position is still:
- There is nothing that says or even implicates one must abstain from all Drug and Alcohol use forever.
- Anyone doing even a modicum of research on tapes and lectures will find that the requirements are not abstinence

In short there is no reasonable basis to say that a Chelas perception is a requirement for abstinence. Which says to me that there would not be a reason to think a Chela should go on guilt trips and self-doubt because they smoked pot because of MP teachings.

If you want to maintain your position that I am wrong, and pursue this no further thats your call of course. Personally I would have expected a desire to more then fairly certain on a pet issue like this. For me, the lack of clearing this up will be one reason why I tend to discard, or minimize your experience.

Quote:
No, I haven't made statements about the MP teachings that are not true. I've made statements about the MP teachings based on my experience, and I stand by them.
Well in this cas you seem to have made statements that are not true - based on your experience - well memory and recollection of that experience.

Quote:
so would I bother *opening* my inmost thoughts and sentiments with you?
Understood, exactly the same reason I ignore inquiries about my inner and personal experiences, as I would only be providing fodder for ridicule.

Quote:
don't know if this clears things up for you or not.
sorta, though I'd still like to understand this:

--Gary may not feel guilt for smoking pot.... but I know "chelas" who have experienced major guilt trips and self-judgment for smoking pot because they believe he doesn't.... smoke that!


Thanks for your patience

Peace be with you
 
Old 09-22-2010, 02:02 AM
 
309 posts, read 581,539 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepcynic View Post
allan, you are weak because you have been taken in by the charlatan Gary Olsen and his sham 'Master Path'. That you cannot see or understand that only underscores how Gary dupes his followers.

It really is that simple.
The people who attacked us celebrate Ramadan
therefore anyone that celebrates Ramadan
must have attacked us

Sorry I just heard that on Colbert Report today and the logic of your post feels so similar. I gues we could the following:

Anyone who attacks us is a terrorist
therefore anyone that celebrates Ramadan
is a terorist


SO, just to be clear, I could be a strong, secure, confident person in all aspects of my life, but the fact that I feel differently about MP then you I am weak.

Ok, no further need to discuss, your brilliance and logic are to much for me.

Last edited by allan1015; 09-22-2010 at 03:27 AM..
 
Old 09-22-2010, 02:20 AM
 
268 posts, read 458,584 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015 View Post
Based on postings of MP material by Violet, the fact that I made the 2cd vow a year ago,
Obviously it would be important to note that I do not have ALL MasterPath publications, nor do you Allan. As everyone knows, there have been many editions/versions of the books, introductory profiles, etc. over the years. Therefore, you have not proven e_o_f wrong.

But even if you remain so narrowly focused on the passages I shared from a recent version MP Volume I, there is absolutely no denying that ALL EXTERNAL SUBSTANCES are considered hindrances to spirituality. This alone makes Gary Olsen a phony and a hypocrite, since he uses external substances regularly.

You're proving yourself to be an obsessed and desperate individual, Allan. It is astounding to me how you can remain so focused on one statement...while at the same time leaving virtually every major question we've asked of you behind in the dust with no response!! I can only assume you are avoiding these important questions because you can't answer them, and using minor quibbles to deflect. Next you'll ask me to spell out which questions I'm referring to. Go back and read...they're all still here.
 
Old 09-22-2010, 03:37 AM
 
309 posts, read 581,539 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet11 View Post
So now we know what you're saying worship ISN'T, Allan. But can you please enlighten me as to what worship IS in MP-speak? As you know, I am not yet fluent.
I am not aware of any specifc definition, but its late and am burnt from writing policy papers. I guess in simple terms its referenced as - follow the instructions. Perhaps sincerity, faith, obeddience, - which I guess is more the definition of Guru Bhakti. I'll keep an eye out for anything more specific.

Quote:
2) I wasn't paranoid, I was weirded out ..
I stand corrected

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