Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-23-2009, 03:21 AM
 
309 posts, read 580,683 times
Reputation: 24

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepcynic View Post
I was saving the Eckankar and Radha Soami to put that cultmiester allan in his place for later.
I don't find any Eckankar accusations to have put me any where, but what is this Radha Soami thing?

You mean as in my last post where I said that both MP and Eck had some common heritage - that Radha Soami?

I can and do agree that there are substantial parts of MP teachings that are direct or close parallels to the writings of Sawan Singh Ji, a great Master of Radha Soami teachings

That is probably why MP books, ones I have going back at least 10 years, have a loving acknowledgments of Sawan Singh Ji's work and contribution and that there were large overlaps in most source and reference MP material.

- I don't think it plagerism when one acknowledges, is it?
- no one from Radha Soami is raising a fuss, and
- I personally love the fact that the material is not all new and has these roots.

Quote:
Most sane people can see through this type of scam if they only look into the facts.
The problem, as I see it, is you haven't been dealing with facts. Well your 'facts' are your facts are weak and you refuse any open discussion and simply have a strong bias against gurus and religions in general.

Of course, presenting facts or having a discussion on accusations doesnt seem to be in vogue around here,

Lets no mistake that I like a good case and think your accusations should hold up to even the smallest bit of scrutiny - lets not mistake that with me being defensive. Actually its more like I am on the offensive, sometimes, and I don't mean to be that either

 
Old 03-23-2009, 04:47 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,084 posts, read 14,855,038 times
Reputation: 4040
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015 View Post
.

- So One would expect to find commonality in wittings, metaphysics, etc.

?
OK, you lose a bit of credibility here, philosophically speaking here, "metaphysics" has to do with any of the sciences that have been discovered since Aristotle wrote his book, "Meta" meaning "after", and Physics, or having to do with the physical world."The Physics" describing the state of the sciences of the physical world as it was in his day. It specifically means things like Evolution, nuclear physics, the classification of all plant and animal life down to the "genus, specie" level, hydromechanics, the laws of gravity, relativity, et al. The word "Metaphysics" has been misused by the lunatic fringe in an attempt to give credence to their pathetic belief systems. The trendy mis-use of a word by the great unwashed.
 
Old 03-23-2009, 09:12 AM
 
175 posts, read 424,824 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015 View Post
End of Faith

You seem like a smarter guy than that.

Thanks for any insights.

I am female.
 
Old 03-23-2009, 09:15 AM
 
175 posts, read 424,824 times
Reputation: 83
plagiarising the thoughts and writings of other people
does not mean mastery of the consciousness
it only means the persons are adept at
rationalizing unartful acts of theft
they lack integrity in representing truth ....
genuine & authentic are void and bereft
powerful mind & subtle ego tis leading the way
with charismatic personality on center stage
while people sit in hypnotic state of trance
enthralled by moments perceived as transcending all
call them masters and saints of rare
but do not forget to pay the monthly fare
they call it karmic payment for the right
to go inside your own body to meet God’s inherent light...
modern-day charlatans and con artists say and do tell...
their cure and technique for what ails
these men & women remain hidden from public view
scrutiny and observation avoided like the plague of flu
when they appear before the followers so true...
pretend states of humble behind eyes of brown & blue
the curtain goes down and the game continues behind the scene...
deceptive practices misleading the soul unknown and unseen...
the teaching they have stolen to claim as their own...
is a trap dangling old carrots and dry bones
be wary of their exuberant and charming claims ...
they are not who they appear nor realize what they proclaim...
 
Old 03-23-2009, 02:00 PM
 
309 posts, read 580,683 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes View Post
OK, you lose a bit of credibility here, philosophically speaking here, "metaphysics" has to do with ....
Oh come now, spiritual metaphysics, the description of things in the non human realm, beyond physics, or stuff like that is a well enough used term when it comes to religion and spirituality. Religion and spirituality even have an entry in wikipedia under metaphysics.

Though I agree that all kinds of religion/spiritual stuff, in particular new agey things, try to bind themselves to the physics, or the latest thing in quantumn physics is used to prove some special theory on crystal healing, that kind of thing. Which is not what I meant at all.

Which is vastly different thing then me talking about the 'metaphysics' of a particular belief system. Like is God a personal god, or abstract, is there a soul, heaven, things like that are what I meant, and will mean when I mention the metaphysics of religious/spiritual path. What is their position on these metaphysical questions.

I think I picked up the use of the term via Ken Wilber, one of the most prolific and deep philosophers, thinkers of our time. I think its quite a legit context, but thanks for trying to keep things honest.

Quote:
The word "Metaphysics" has been misused by the lunatic fringe in an attempt to give credence to their pathetic belief systems.
and with that kind of view/tone you loose credibility with me as well.
 
Old 03-23-2009, 02:00 PM
 
175 posts, read 424,824 times
Reputation: 83
Allan, the 'loving acknowledgement to Radha' to which you refer came as a result of Gary Olsen being called out for plagarising by true scholars and professors of philosophy. Gary's wife then spent the next 10 or more years editing the 'works' to, as Gary put it: 'save his ass.'
 
Old 03-23-2009, 02:02 PM
 
309 posts, read 580,683 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by end_of_faith View Post
I am female.
Nuance of characterization seems to be missing from your mental pontification and vernacular. A 'guy' only means a person in this context.

Ok, just kidding, sorry if your offended. It is hard to tell when people disquise there names and stuff.
 
Old 03-23-2009, 02:12 PM
 
309 posts, read 580,683 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by end_of_faith View Post
Allan, the 'loving acknowledgement to Radha' to which you refer came as a result of Gary Olsen being called out for plagarising by true scholars and professors of philosophy. Gary's wife then spent the next 10 or more years editing the 'works' to, as Gary put it: 'save his ass.'
Yes I know that he was 'called out' in the early 90's perhaps mid, not sure of exact dates. In research I did find something from like 97 where Gary emails some guy who was a critic and asked him to post on the internet his apology and intent to correct. As best I can tell he/mp org has corrected this and this has not been an issue for over a decade.

So, for me, I don't see it as an issue. A mistake, found, corrected. All the parties involved appear to be happy.

I guess we could have a discussion that true masters, or their organizations, shouldn't make mistakes, or do things that are culturally unaccepted.

We could also have a discussion that you feel it wasn't a mistake and Gary intended to mislead and lie. Sans any data to that point I fid it to be subjective and my intuition and feeling on this was more a mistake or oversight.

What we cant do, or I cant do, is let ant-guru biased folks leave this 'rippoff claim' out there hanging, as if it wasnt solved more then a decade ago, or that it was evil intent in the first place.

And by anti-guru folks I mean those that in the end don't have issues specific to Gary or MP, but just don't like gurus, religions, out of normal spirituality in general.
 
Old 03-23-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,521 posts, read 37,121,123 times
Reputation: 13998
The problem here is that a member of a cult cannot see or realize that it is a cult until after leaving it. ...This fact is fairly well known.
 
Old 03-23-2009, 02:53 PM
 
309 posts, read 580,683 times
Reputation: 24
End_of_faith

a nice poem above,
Not really full of any facts, and not really providing any 'structure' by which one could evaluate any guru, any spiritual leader, or path.

For example,
but do not forget to pay the monthly fare
they call it karmic payment for the right

Seems to be implying that religions and spiritual paths should not collect money, in any way. Be it a 10% tithe, a monthly due, a yearly devotion of love. I simply do not agree with that principle. Nor do I find it, the collecting of any monies, on a cult check off list.

Or this line:
the teaching they have stolen to claim as their own...

I think your walking a slippery slope here, back on this plagerism stuff. A spiritual path that is built on the work, stands on the shoulders of those that came before, that kind of spiritual path is encouraging to me, I don't see it as an issue. As it was nothing has been stolen, no one from any other spiritual org is claiming Gary has stolen their work.

Now this line really invokes probably the core discussion here
while people sit in hypnotic state of trance
enthralled by moments perceived as transcending all


I've only been to, let me see, 3 satsangs (2 national, 1 regional) and in those 2 darshans. I don't find myself sitting in any trance, I actually have to fight not falling asleep. Nothing against Gary, I have the same reaction when I was with Tolle, and Dyer and others over the years.

But heres the point I keep on trying to make. Guru worship, the man, the outer events, the group dynamics, politics, peer pressure - none of these are what drives me to proceed with MP. Not as far as I can tell or as far as honest introspection reveals to me.

So how does one tell if a spiritual teaching is working for them?

For me its been the internal experiences, those I've had by myself, awake and a couple of times in dream states.

I also like one of the guidelines in the teachings, how much conscious control do I have over anger, lust, greed, those kinds of things. And the point is that so far I am observant of greater control in me, of detachments from drama, etc.

So, how does one evaluate a religion/spiritual path, ascertain if its working for them, etc? Like I said, for me it has nothing to do with Guru worship, feeling as if I am associated with God incarnate, etc. The proof is in the pudding, isn't it.

I am apparently into MP for different reasons then you were. It feels as if you want to put on me the same motivations, intent that you had. I dont think that will work out.

of course the anti-guru guys will just dismiss my personal experiences, the benefits I am finding in MP, and they will label me deluded, or some other demeaning and angry response. It will be interesting perhaps to see how they handle what they are calling a sham and a lie and a destructive cult - has actually helped, is improving, is good for someone, like me.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top