Isn't it great that when we die

[Rhenzanite]

I'm going to be worm food!! My body will decompose and turn into a type of fertilizer that will help more trees and plants grow, which will make the earth more beautiful after I am gone )

[poohoney]

I can't wait to join our Lord Jesus Christ!

Don't assume we'll be worm food, though. Enoch and Elijah never died, nor will we who are taken at the rapture. Keep your lamp lit and watch eagerly for our Savior. Whether or not Jesus comes today or tomorrow, a piano could fall on your head. May you be ready whenever He comes.

[moonsavvy]

Originally Posted by technobarbie

Isn't that a form of evolution?

I think so.

[agnostic soldier]

Originally Posted by poohoney

I can't wait to join our Lord Jesus Christ!

Don't assume we'll be worm food, though. Enoch and Elijah never died, nor will we who are taken at the rapture. Keep your lamp lit and watch eagerly for our Savior. Whether or not Jesus comes today or tomorrow, a piano could fall on your head. May you be ready whenever He comes.

Assuming there is an afterlife, then how do you know Confucious wouldn't be the one waiting for you.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by agnostic soldier

Assuming there is an afterlife, then how do you know Confucious wouldn't be the one waiting for you.

Well if he's a Christian, he could be there too.

[agnostic soldier]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

Well if he's a Christian, he could be there too.

Confucius was a Chinese philosopher and educator and the founder of Confucianism. It's just as plausible that if there is an afterlife, then Confucius would be the 'judge.'

[Proffhrdkncs]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

Well if he's a Christian, he could be there too.

What, is heaven a Country Club or something with exclusive membership? That is a delusion that many people evolve beyond thankfully. If there is a heaven, Confucius would acquire membership ahead of most Christians.

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by Proffhrdkncs

What, is heaven a Country Club or something with exclusive membership? That is a delusion that many people evolve beyond thankfully. If there is a heaven, Confucius would acquire membership ahead of most Christians.

Here's my thought on the whole exclusive membership thing (and YES, it does seem like that, doesn't it?). According to the Bible, people have sinful natures. According to Christians, even those who have a deep belief in Jesus still sin. It is supposedly in our nature and we're only "saved" from it through Jesus.

Well if all these sinful-but-believing people go to Heaven, why wouldn't they sin in Heaven, too? Because it's a nicer place? Being in a nice place or having all the best or happiest of surroundings obviously hasn't saved us from "being sinners"; there are many people who grow up engulfed in love and morality but they still "sin". Right? So just being in Heaven in and of itself wouldn't stop sinful but "believing" people from sinning.

So what would?

Taking away their desires and large portions of their personalities. I can't see what else would do it. Being "filled with love" for God sure doesn't do it. Right? Even being "in God's presence" doesn't do it since people claim they walk every step with Jesus, etc. No. You'd have to eliminate much of what makes a person that specific person.

So the person would have to lose a lot of him or herself in order to operate harmlessly in Heaven (or anywhere). Obviously, God must be transforming people somehow once they die so they can be in Heaven and not sully it. Well, if he can transform and change the desires (or eliminate them) and the personalities of people who are "believers" so that God can "enjoy" their presence with him or whatever, why couldn't he do the same for nonbelievers, too?

The answer is that He could. But He doesn't. Right? Why? Because they didn't "earn it" by believing? What's the "belief" cutoff? What if a person is a believer but has a moment of doubt and coincidentally, just at that moment, he's hit by a bus and dies? Does he not make it into the Country Club then?

Conversely, we KNOW the Christian belief is that a person can do the opposite--be a horror, commit the most horrifying of atrocities--but if he manages to "truly" believe one second before death, then he does get into the Country Club.

And while we're on the subject of dying and going to a great place or a horrifying place, I'd like to bring up that going to Hell can't be "punishment". "Punishment" is chiding or reprimand designed to change someone's behavior for the future. Going to Hell obviously doesn't do that since Hell is "eternal". So going to the Country Club is little more than managing to have the good fortune of screwing your head on in the "right" way at least one second before death, and being put into Hell is a permanent act of revenge (not "punishment") for having had the bad fortune of a moment's doubt before death.

And none of it is based on deeds.

Sorry, but all of this reads like a kindergarten story v. a college thesis. Far from being sophisticated, The Bible is one of the most black-and-white, simplified "bad guys v. good guys" text collections we have at our disposal today.

And I can not believe God is a simpleton.

By the way, I've heard the theory that Heaven is such a "good place" that it (magically) transforms souls into things that can never sin again. And once again, if this is the case, then it would hold just as true for non-believers in Jesus as for believers, so God would be pleased with them too...yet another hole in the idea that non-believers "can't" be in God's presence because they would sully Heaven.

I've also heard, "Well, if a person doubts, then he or she was never a true believer in the first place." Easy to say because it's completely unprovable. I mean let's face facts. Some of the most smug, self-superior "firm believers" in the world could eventually have that one second's doubt too, right? Who can prove that you won't? And that therefore you were "never a believer" in the first place? It's an argument that's full of holes, presumptuous and very, very juvenile.

[MontanaGuy]

poohoney wrote:

Enoch and Elijah never died, nor will we who are taken at the rapture. Keep your lamp lit and watch eagerly for our Savior. Whether or not Jesus comes today or tomorrow, a piano could fall on your head.

I see you're new so welcome. Could you explain a little more about Enoch and Elijah? I did a Google search on Ilijah and it said he was a prophet in the 9th century BC. Are you saying that he never died and is therefore still alive somewhere on the earth or did he just skip the death episode and proceed directly to heaven? And yes, I will agree that a piano falling on your head is likely to bring bad luck.

[Haaziq]

Yeah, well, you could argue that heaven (assuming it exists) would actually be a hell for many reasons.

I don't want to live forever. I wasn't living billions of years before I was born and it has not inconvenienced me at all, so if there is nothing after death, it's not a big deal to me.