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I guess in North Carolina things are brewing in quite an odd fashion and it has me particularly intrigued. Apparently Elizabeth Dole has put out an ad that Kay Hagan is affiliated with an Atheist organization as well as insinuates that Kay Hagan may very well be one herself. As to the credibility of the ad, I don't really know. On one hand, Hagan is apparently a Sunday School teacher and an active churchgoer which doesn't necessarily mean she believes but I would say the evidence strongly favors just that.
Now, I would hate to be misrepresented as something I am not. If I were a Christian being misrepresented as an Atheist than I imagine I'd be somewhat irked.
However, on the other hand, I found Hagan's response to be a little bit perturbing as well. Part of her reply:
"I think Elizabeth Dole has gone to the lowest of the lows."
Now, wait a second... Is that really the lowest thing a person can be? An Atheist? If she were wrongly accused of being a child molester or a vicious murderer I could see that being the "lowest of the lows", but an Atheist? Is that really as low as it gets?
While I think I can understand her frustration and while I do realize this is politics I firstly find it despicable that an ad put out associating someone with Atheists is actually something seen as derogatory but I also find the response of "lowest of the lows" to be one of the lowest responses I've ever heard.
So, I don't know what to think. Personally, I'm more disgusted with Elizabeth Dole for insinuating that associating or even being an Atheist is something not worth voting for someone over and yet I'm half tempted to the point of writing a letter to Kay Hagan expressing what I think of her "lowest of the lows" response.
Well it's just like the fact that you basically HAVE to (claim to) be Christian to have a chance at being elected president. Unfortunately, people vote based on religion. And cheap shots like this, that just happen to also demean atheists, only increases this negative view of atheist politicians.
A gallup pole in May '08 showed that 86% of the people in the South (Bible Belt) believed in God. That equates to a lot of Christians in North Carolina who would never vote for a non-believer as that would be synonymous to commiting a sin themselves. Even hinting that you are somewhat unsure about faith in God would be a political disaster in North Carolina much less stating you are an Atheist or "GODLESS". Because if you are Godless then you must be evil, right? You and I both know that is so far from the truth it is ridiculous, but how many candidates do you hear admit they do not believe in God?? None or very, very rare. It is a political taboo and will remain as such as long as the population is largely Christian, because there is a stigma with being Atheist among them. As they say, "Love thy neighbor" as long as they are Christian, right?
Last edited by Proffhrdkncs; 10-31-2008 at 01:30 AM..
Reason: incomplete
A gallup pole in May '08 showed that 86% of the people in the South (Bible Belt) believed in God. That equates to a lot of Christians in North Carolina who would never vote for a non-believer as that would be synonymous to commiting a sin themselves. Even hinting that you are somewhat unsure about faith in God would be a political disaster in North Carolina much less stating you are an Atheist or "GODLESS". Because if you are Godless then you must be evil, right? You and I both know that is so far from the truth it is ridiculous, but how many candidates do you hear admit they do not believe in God?? None or very, very rare. It is a
Oh, I have no doubt that even if Kay Hagan were an Atheist herself that she'd adamantly deny it for just this reason. In fact, I find it hard to believe that with all of our elected representatives in office that apparently not a one of them is an Atheist. I understand that politicians have to claim some sort of faith to get elected which I find the idea of to be idiotic and stupid.
However, my question really pertains to Hagan's response in that the mere insinuation of her being an Atheist was the "lowest of lows". Is it really that awful? The lowest of lows seems to me to be confined to the likes of child rapists, serial murderers, and closeted nose pickers but... Atheists???
And yet, I get the distinct impression that if Elizabeth Dole insinuated that Kay Hagan associated with a group of Jews or Muslims or was perhaps one herself that the retaliatory remarks would not be implied as being the "lowest of lows".
You are exactly right, that is precisely why they used the term GODLESS!! The mindset among the Christians is although the Jews and Muslims got it wrong, at least they are trying. You see, the child rapists and murderers can still be redeemed as long as they are cleansed, reborn and saved. It seems absurd to associate someone who has a different religious view with child rapist and murderers and the lowest of lows, but that it what the Christians are conditioned to think.
..In fact, I find it hard to believe that with all of our elected representatives in office that apparently not a one of them is an Atheist.
Would that actually be correct? That you have no athiests in office at all? None? Or are you saying that if there are athiests they have to masquerade under some kind of faith in order to be elected?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop
..I understand that politicians have to claim some sort of faith to get elected which I find the idea of to be idiotic and stupid.
Sorry, I just well this just blows my mind really. That anyone would have to live in that kind of environment.
What on earth happened to the seperation between church and state?
I mean it's not like the lines aren't getting fuzzier all the time here but still, I really don't understand how what appears to be going on over there is even possible and it seems to me that it's gotten worse in the last decade or so.
Just reading all of the things that have been said around here regarding athiests, well it makes me sad really.
Anyway, if I'd seen the ad it most likely would have me voting for the "lowest of low" just on principle.
Would that actually be correct? That you have no athiests in office at all? None? Or are you saying that if there are athiests they have to masquerade under some kind of faith in order to be elected?
Sorry, I just well this just blows my mind really. That anyone would have to live in that kind of environment.
What on earth happened to the seperation between church and state?
I mean it's not like the lines aren't getting fuzzier all the time here but still, I really don't understand how what appears to be going on over there is even possible and it seems to me that it's gotten worse in the last decade or so.
Just reading all of the things that have been said around here regarding athiests, well it makes me sad really.
Anyway, if I'd seen the ad it most likely would have me voting for the "lowest of low" just on principle.
that's the way it is here.
People vote for their elected officials for stupid reasons like religion, abortion, views on homosexuals and, of course, belief of whether one candidate is the anti-Christ (i.e. Obama, yes my friend who is intelligent in other forums actually believes this) or not. No one seems to care that pretty much every facet of our country, including the economy, health care, education and infrastructure (i do not doubt that the Minneapolis bridge collapse will be the last, mark my words) is crumbling.
but oh well, make sure the ones that get in office believe in Jesus, because you know if the President prays, it will fix everything!
Would that actually be correct? That you have no athiests in office at all? None? Or are you saying that if there are athiests they have to masquerade under some kind of faith in order to be elected?
Yeah, I meant that if they are they have to masquerade as some sort of other faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow
Sorry, I just well this just blows my mind really. That anyone would have to live in that kind of environment.
What on earth happened to the seperation between church and state?
I mean it's not like the lines aren't getting fuzzier all the time here but still, I really don't understand how what appears to be going on over there is even possible and it seems to me that it's gotten worse in the last decade or so.
Just reading all of the things that have been said around here regarding athiests, well it makes me sad really.
Anyway, if I'd seen the ad it most likely would have me voting for the "lowest of low" just on principle.
People vote for their elected officials for stupid reasons like religion, abortion, views on homosexuals and, of course, belief of whether one candidate is the anti-Christ (i.e. Obama, yes my friend who is intelligent in other forums actually believes this) or not. No one seems to care that pretty much every facet of our country, including the economy, health care, education and infrastructure (i do not doubt that the Minneapolis bridge collapse will be the last, mark my words) is crumbling.
but oh well, make sure the ones that get in office believe in Jesus, because you know if the President prays, it will fix everything!
boy i sure am proud to be an American!
You know, it always does shock me when I see how bad this has become over there in terms of government and religion but I do think it's something that is happening around the world to a greater or lesser degree too. Probably doesn't make you feel any better but it is insidiously creeping in here a little as well.
For what it's worth I'm always really heartened to see that Americans, a vast many of them do not support this regardless of whether they are religious or not. And I'll always believe that there are many, MANY more things that Americans should be proud of than not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop
Yeah, I meant that if they are they have to masquerade as some sort of other faith.
That's bad. Very, very bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop
Welcome to America.
You know, when I was there only ONE person mentioned God to me at all. And it was a God Bless you kinda deal at the end of a convo so it didn't offend me at all. I guess I find it really interesting that I see all of this kind of stuff go on with the media and government in America, like you've mentioned here Troop, but perhaps people need to know you before they start talking God in real life? Curious though.
Anyway, I loved the place. Flaws and all.
But what I heard was (1) Hagan teaches Sunday School and (2) One of the people in the picture is a fellow church goer and (3) that was not her voice superimposed over her picture. I hope she wins the lawsuit.
Elected offices are supposed to represent ALL the citizens, not just the Christians. So what if she went to a fundraiser by this group. This casts serious doubts, from my perspective of Liddy being able to represent all the people in the state. I am in SC, so my opinion does not matter, but good grief! This puts here right up there with Jesse Helms in my book.
I will be glad when these ads are over. I used to respect Ms Dole even though I disagreed with her politics. She has played one of the dirtiest most personal insult insinuation campaigns I have seen.
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well this just blows my mind really. That anyone would have to live in that kind of environment.
