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Old 05-23-2009, 07:27 AM
 
Location: johannesburg
57 posts, read 77,924 times
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Not to be only a rhetorical question,
if one is a dogmatic militant
or a liberated thinker.
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Old 05-23-2009, 07:52 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,084 posts, read 14,869,230 times
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I find it difficult to believe that anyone can be considered guilty of any sin, just by making it out of the birth canal.
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Old 05-23-2009, 08:09 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,507,074 times
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According to Christianity, God will burn everyone in hell unless they agree to worship him.

So, for example, if God were to kill a newborn baby, and the baby therefore had no chance to take God up on his offer, God will torture that baby for all eternity. (God has done this very thing on more than one occasion.)

Christians use the concept of "guilt or innocence" to make it seem like a person deserves this fate. But nothing could be further from the truth.
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Old 05-23-2009, 09:38 AM
 
1,553 posts, read 1,836,568 times
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Of course, the child is innocent before God, before Law and before people.
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,915 posts, read 18,630,095 times
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Dusty Rhodes wrote:
Quote:
I find it difficult to believe that anyone can be considered guilty of any sin, just by making it out of the birth canal.
Exactly. A baby's brain isn't even developed to the point that we could say that they're fully conscious of their own existence so I can't imagine that any newborns are coveting their neighbors wife or taking the name of the Lord in vain.
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Old 05-23-2009, 12:27 PM
 
22,233 posts, read 19,245,773 times
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we are beloved children of a loving and generous Creator
guilt and sin and shame are inventions of humans seeking to gain power and exercise control over other humans

we take back our power, our freedom, and our lives, when we realize the power we have to live our own lives.

God wants us free and living our own lives, not enslaved to any other humans, or institutions (church, school, state, government, marriage) that seek to control us and keep us under their thumb
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Old 05-23-2009, 12:30 PM
 
22,233 posts, read 19,245,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
According to Christianity, God will burn everyone in hell unless they agree to worship him.

God will torture that baby for all eternity. (God has done this very thing on more than one occasion.)
i don't know where you get your concepts of what "god" is but it sounds more like a bad horror film than any truth. We have a choice about what we believe. Who in their right mind would writhe in torture and burn for eternity? Time to pick up a more life-affirming view of the world.
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Old 05-23-2009, 12:42 PM
 
13,640 posts, read 24,518,681 times
Reputation: 18603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
According to Christianity, God will burn everyone in hell unless they agree to worship him.

So, for example, if God were to kill a newborn baby, and the baby therefore had no chance to take God up on his offer, God will torture that baby for all eternity. (God has done this very thing on more than one occasion.)

Christians use the concept of "guilt or innocence" to make it seem like a person deserves this fate. But nothing could be further from the truth.
You really need to get to know more Christians if that is your idea of what we ALL believe..I am so glad I KNOW many Atheists who don't believe what you do
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Old 05-23-2009, 12:58 PM
 
4,511 posts, read 7,522,986 times
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IMHO!

the question implies that thought should extend beyond assumed guilt and back to innocence .... what would that have been, that our ancesters might have known ....?

being one with nature, and humble enough to ascribe love and wisdom to a creator of all, instead of beginning a power struggle for fame and privileges..
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Old 05-23-2009, 01:13 PM
 
Location: California
37,143 posts, read 42,240,055 times
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I'm not a Christian but this is what I'm aware of:

All people are born under the umbrella of "the original sin" and thus no body is truly innocent.
It's very difficult to reconcile this core belief when discussing babies and children so an "age of accountability" has been assumed and accepted as doctrine by many. It is a man made idea.
"Innocent" is a human term, it has nothing to do with our standing with God.
ALL must be born again, accept Jesus as your personal savior, etc. to avoid unpleasantness after death. It is a gift that we are all offerend and need only accept but most are too stubborn to do so.
Christians who believe otherwise, universalists, all-roads-lead-to-heaven types, and the happy-clappy "yeah Jesus loves me!!" style Christians are not REAL CHRISTIANS in the eyes of fundamentalists.
It doesn't matter how many Chirstians you know, none of them actually believe the same thing. Especially Catholics and Born Agains.
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