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The original myth, Sumerian predates the following two.
Sumerian
In the eleventh tablet of the Semitic Babylonian epic of Gilagamesh is a flood story that is the source for the Noah story. The Gods resolved to cleanse the earth of an overpopulated humanity, but Utnapishtim was warned by the God Ea in a dream. He and some craftsmen built a huge (seven decks encompassing one acre in area) ark. Utnapishtim then loaded it with his family, the craftsmen, and "the seed of all living creatures." The waters rose up, and a storm continued for six days and six nights. The Gods repented and wept upon seeing the global destruction of living beings and stilled the flood on the seventh day. The waters covered everything but the top of the mountain Nisur, where the boat landed. A dove was loosed, but it returned, having found no place to rest. A swallow was sent, but it too returned. Seven days later, after having loosed a raven that did not return to the ark, the people began to emerge. Utnapishtim made a sacrifice to the Gods. He and his wife were given immortality and lived at the end of the earth.
Babylonian
Three times (every 1200 years), the Gods became distressed by the disturbance from human overpopulation. The Gods dealt with the problem first by plague, then by famine. Both times, the God Enki advised humans to bribe the God causing the problem. The third time, Enlil advised the Gods to destroy all humans with a flood, but Enki had Atrahasis build an ark and so escape. Also on the boat were cattle, wild animals and birds, and the family of Atrahasis. After seeing the suffering caused by the flood, the Gods regretted their action, and Enki established barren women and stillbirth to avoid the problem in the future.
Hebrew.... The latest one that is in the OT was obviously based on the earlier Sumerian and Babylonian myths.
Based on the Babylonian story with the difference that the flood was a harsh punishment for humanity's sinfulness. Noah was 600 years old when it began to rain for what ended up being 40 days and 40 nights. After the end of 150 days, the waters were abated. The ark rested in the seventh month upon the mountains of Ararat. Waters decreased until the 10th month, on the first day of the 10th month; tops of mountains were also seen. At the end of 40 days, Noah opened the windows of the ark. First, he sent a raven, which went to and fro. He then sent a dove, which returned and hadn't found land. After seven more days, another dove was loosed; it returned that evening with an olive leaf. The next week, the dove didn't return. After a year and 10 days from the start of the flood, every creature emerged from the ark. Noah sacrificed some clean animals and birds to God, and God, pleased with this, promised never again to destroy all living creatures.
Many other interesting flood myths here... Flood Myths
I have a thought, what if the "world flood" only occurred in a part of the world and not the whole world. Take into consideration that the rest of the world had not been "discovered" until centuries later. To me this would explain animal migration, plant development and the absence of excess water. It coulf also explain the animals that Noah collected since there were animals that he could not have possibly seen nor reconized such as polar bears. People you have to realize that when someone in that time speaks of the world they can only speak of what they see/know which in that time was somewhat limited.
I have a thought, what if the "world flood" only occurred in a part of the world and not the whole world.
(snip)
People you have to realize that when someone in that time speaks of the world they can only speak of what they see/know which in that time was somewhat limited.
Thanks for that breath of fresh air, simetime! Good to see not all have lost it...
I have a thought, what if the "world flood" only occurred in a part of the world and not the whole world.
I agree with rifleman's thoughts. I would think that people living a few thousand years ago probably never traveled outside of their immediate area if they were engaged in growing crops and domesticating animals and to them their location was the whole world. No one had any knowledge of different continents, they were illiterate, and for the most part isolated. A local flood would really seem like the whole world had flooded and someone who could write would probably describe it that way.
Keen!!! You keep trickling in new ideas. Ark bombers now. Link please. How many more yah got up your sleeve?
All of your Ark evidence to date has been categoricallydismissed. And now we've completely debunked the Thermite myth as well. Gimme the next one; they're way too easy, Tom. You'll just have to do better!
Sigh. Yawn.
I certainly won't waste my time recounting the numbered, point-form reasons yet again. You can read, right?
Yes basic limestone, but basic limestone does not have air vents on top. Only caterorically dismissed by you. And the part about the explosives came from more than one source. In the link below you can read David Duckworth's account. Here he speaks about his work at the Smithsonian, as a volunteer working in the paleontology section under the direction of Robert Geist and Al Merrick in the year 1968. Now either Duckworth is a bold face liar, or he is telling us the truth. And I don't know to many people who could keep such a lie like this going, and it appears when it comes to the Ark on Ararat, there must be a lot of liars, or a lot of people willing to go to their grave claiming their experience was the truth. You will find Duckworth's account under Ark sightings of the link below.
If Captain Noah was trying to find an ideal spot to land his ark wouldn't a spot near the top of a mountain at 15,000 feet be just about the most stupid place you could think of? Think about it. It would be bitter cold and difficult to even breathe at that altitude and then you'd have to figure out a way for all those critters to climb down once the waters had completely receded. Can you imagine a couple of elephants or kangaroos trying to negotiate their way down a steep mountainside? I can just visualize millions of animals carefully creeping down from Mt. Ararat. And of course we can't have a single casualty or that species has just gone extinct. Just something to think about.
Not only that. Here is another problem. Campbell claims the Ark settled near the top at around 15,000', yet it is written that while the Ark was floating around on the receding waters, a dove brought an olive leaf. How pray tell, could that have happened? Olive trees only grow in the foothills. So the Ark would not be at that high of an elevation, and yet retrieving olive leaves.
Not only that. Here is another problem. Campbell claims the Ark settled near the top at around 15,000', yet it is written that while the Ark was floating around on the receding waters, a dove brought an olive leaf. How pray tell, could that have happened? Olive trees only grow in the foothills. So the Ark would not be at that high of an elevation, and yet retrieving olive leaves.
Didn't you know that god's magical dove could dive into the depths and pluck a branch off of the magic olive tree that was magically growing under the magic water?
Well no, it's not that simple, because your account comes out of your own imagination, and that's your attempt to rationalize away the Aztec account. I see people do this, especially when they have no real facts at their disposal. And you can deny all the oral traditions you want. I'm sure many clutures around the world will have a good laught.
The Aztec- stated that a man named Tapi lived a long time ago. And the creator told Tapi to build a boat. The creator told him he should take his wife and a pair of every animal with him in his boat. He stated that everyone thought Tapi was crazy, until the floods came. Both the men and the animals tried to cling to the mountains, but they became flooded to. Finally, Tapi decided that the water had dried up when he let loose a dove that did not return.
His story had nothing to do with your flooding rivers, or their lack of knowledge of El nino, or anything else. It's apparent to me, you are not listening. And the reason for that, is because you are to busy making up your own stories to dismiss all the others.
And if these legends were just shared stories, how do you explain how upset the first Spanish missionaries were, when they reported that these indians had the global flood in their oral traditions? And if the early missionaries thought that these were but shared accounts, why would they claim the Devil gave the stories to these indians to confuse the missionaries?
WHO SHARED THE GLOBAL FLOOD ACCOUNT WITH THE INDIANS BEFORE THE SPAINISH MISSIONARIES ARRIVED?
And the problem with your mythology of the past, is there is no Endgame. Whatever we knew about the Gods of the past, is pretty much gone outside of the historical account. . No prophecies to follow. The Bible on the other hand, is filled with both historical accounts, and prophecies that are occuring even today. From the Jews returning from a worldwide exile, to the recapture of Jerusalem, to the sealing up of Jerusalems East Porch Gate. It's all spoken about in the Bible. The Scriptures are filled with clear details of what the future has in store for us. And these details are evident, because the God who authored the Bible is not dead, but alive. My evidence is all around you, yet you first have to study and read about this evidence, before you deny it.
None of it is out my imagination Mr. Smartypants, but rather is based on research from scholarly studies of anthropology, archaeology, and history. Additionally, I have studied your religion in detail and was a Christian at one time. The more I studied, the more I realized, this just can't be. Oh wait, I was Catholic which meant I was going to hell anyway, right? It was this very research that led me to agnosticism. BTW, The Spanish told all kinds of lurid stories about native people that simply were not true and outright lied at times. The Aztec story you related has nothing to do with the Ica story you mentioned, so why are you trying to relate my explanation to the Aztec story? Since you believe in their flood myth, I take it you believe in Quetzalcoatl too. The river floods and El Nino had everything to do with the Ica - not the Aztec. But since diversion is the name of the Fundie game, I recognize it for what it is. But hey, continue to believe your cute little story and dismissing the works of Universities. Continue to make work that which does not follow. Continue to ignore the lack of geologic evidence for a worldwide flood. Of course, since you are probably the type of person who believes the world is only 7,000 years old and the strata layers and fossil record were deposited by the flood (nevermind all that stuff of how geologic processes really work, the geologic ages, mountain orogenesis or any of the scientific gobbledegook). No real facts as my disposal? That is a laugh coming from a fundie. You people blissfully ignore facts as a tenet of your belief system, especially if they came from science and can even be repeated in a lab! "No, no, no...all that stuff is a trick of the devil to deceive us." Believe what you will...doesn't change anything here. Sheez. Ignore button on.
Last edited by Fullback32; 06-13-2009 at 05:46 PM..
Olive trees only grow in the foothills. So the Ark would not be at that high of an elevation, and yet retrieving olive leaves.
That's an interesting point and it makes you wonder where the dove had been living for such a long period of time when it could never land because the earth was covered by water. Insects have been found at very high elevations due to the wind but birds don't tend to mimic the behavior of 747's and fly around the globe for many months without any nourishment. It's just another example of how the story of Noah's Ark is obviously not factual.
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A bright mind at last!
