Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Quote from: rifleman, 2009: "If a person has to believe in the bible to feel secure, they will, no matter what quality of evidence refutes it."
To your quite valid point, Fullback, I had just this very discussion tonight with my 20 yr old son, who, oddly, is a sort of semi-Christian, as we drove through the dark, over the Cascade Mountains. Kept us awake!
Anyhow, he points out that the majority of Christians do not take this sort of thing as far as the crackpot literalists do. That many or most practicing and socially functional Christians do not sequester themselves down in the basement of their aging mother's house, banging away on their computers, and defending the indefensible.
He suggested that I, as well as the others on the "Reality Team" here, perhaps just back off, because there is NOTHNIG that we can ever say, no matter how well presented or evidenced or carefully refuted, that will pry it's way into the tight-as-a-clam minds of the literalist Christians.
So I for one am going to take his advice. Having been away from C-D for even just a couple of days, I do now see that my personal goal of perhaps bringing some rational reality to this long-enduring argument is pointless with some in the current audience, and it's better to let them be.
Especially when they won't answer simple questions that would box them in. No wonder that they avoid them, huh?
Over time, the truth about the absurdities of literalistic biblical interpretations, coupled with the ongoing and spectacular growth of scientific knowledge about our ancient world and it's evolved inhabitants and ancestors, has been accepted by more and more mature, rational thinkers.
This is now being amply demonstrated in the growing number of atheists in North America and Europe (tho' perhaps not in the less educated regions or where theist thugs still preside, stoning the dis-believers in the public square).
For now, that's good enough for me.
I don't know about the literalists, but I sure learned a lot from your posts!
I have just been informed, cybernetically, Rifleman, that I have to spread some Cread about before I can enhance your reputation further. Let me, then, just say in response to your last post, "Wow, O master!"
This has officially become one of the silliest discussions I've ever voluntarily participated in. Seriously...trying to prove or disprove a big boat story that ostensibly happened some 4,000 years ago with no verifiable physical evidence. Is this really that important to the validation of some of y'alls faith that this much time and effort has been expended on it? Really?
Are we nonbelievers honestly going to spend this much time and effort disproving a legend?
Talk about a full circle discussion:
"The Ark exists...a bunch of people said they saw it...sorta like UFO people."
.
"Yeah, but there isn't any physical evidence"
"But all these cultures have similar stories."
"Let me explain something about those stories to you"
"Bullcrap. They said the same things as Genesis"
"Nu uh"
"Did so"
"Well how do you explain how the animals could live at that altitude with no fresh water?"
"God did it"
"Well, the dove found a stick in sea water? There are no olive trees up there!"
"God did it"
"Well the shear number of animals in the Ark versus the volume of the ark doesn't add up! Physics man, physics!"
"Well science is irrelevant because it interferes with my faith. God did it. Besides, all these cultures have a similar story and abunch of people said they saw it...sorta like the UFO guys."
a) They aren't going to accept that we are right.
b) We aren't going to to accept that they are right.
c) This discussion, that is now on page 82, has said the same things over and over and now has just become silly.
d) I can't believe I participated
We have eyewitiness accounts from years past stating they saw the Ark, and it was broken in two. Now we have pictures from space that show us a manmade object near the top of Mt. Ararat. And photo interprters have stated it is broken in two. And why do the eyewitiness accounts all come from the same location the Bible describes? And why do people who have seen the Ark up close, give the same story? Ed Davis said he saw the Ark with a large timber sticking out of it. So why do we have a photo of the Ark from another person, and it appears to have a large timber sticking out of it?
All of this and more you will dismiss. Yet you will believe in Evolution which does not even have a fraction of this evidence. Why is that?
We have eyewitiness accounts from years past stating they saw the Ark, and it was broken in two. Now we have pictures from space that show us a manmade object near the top of Mt. Ararat. And photo interprters have stated it is broken in two. And why do the eyewitiness accounts all come from the same location the Bible describes? And why do people who have seen the Ark up close, give the same story? Ed Davis said he saw the Ark with a large timber sticking out of it. So why do we have a photo of the Ark from another person, and it appears to have a large timber sticking out of it?
All of this and more you will dismiss. Yet you will believe in Evolution which does not even have a fraction of this evidence. Why is that?
Ok, you've repeated yourself yet once again for the I have no idea how many times. I don't intend to repeat myself anymore. We get your stance. We don't believe it. You don't believe us. Let it go...or at least leave me out of it. You're sounding more like the First Church of Noah's Ark rather than the Jesus.
We have eyewitiness accounts from years past stating they saw the Ark, and it was broken in two. Now we have pictures from space that show us a manmade object near the top of Mt. Ararat. And photo interprters have stated it is broken in two.
Quote:
And why do the eyewitiness accounts all come from the same location the Bible describes?
Ohhh I dunno - perhaps because it wouldn't quite fit the fairytale if they said they saw it on Mt. Mckinley??
Quote:
And why do people who have seen the Ark up close, give the same story?
How many ways can one describe a 450' bread box?
Quote:
Ed Davis said he saw the Ark with a large timber sticking out of it. So why do we have a photo of the Ark from another person, and it appears to have a large timber sticking out of it?
I can throw this together for you in 10 minutes with Photoshop. I can even put a t-rex in it.
Quote:
All of this and more you will dismiss. Yet you will believe in Evolution which does not even have a fraction of this evidence. Why is that?
Hahaha. Can anyone say PROJECTION.
Well, I hate to break it to you (again) son, but evolution has MOUNTAINS of irrefutable evidence. In fact it has more evidence than just about any other scientific theory out there, even gravity. Your plagiarized Bible and ark fairytale have NONE.
Obviously you're just too frelling dimwitted and brainwashed to see and understand that fact.
Ohhh I dunno - perhaps because it wouldn't quite fit the fairytale if they said they saw it on Mt. Mckinley??
How many ways can one describe a 450' bread box?
I can throw this together for you in 10 minutes with Photoshop. I can even put a t-rex in it.
Hahaha. Can anyone say PROJECTION.
Well, I hate to break it to you (again) son, but evolution has MOUNTAINS of irrefutable evidence. In fact it has more evidence than just about any other scientific theory out there, even gravity. Your plagiarized Bible and ark fairytale have NONE.
Obviously you're just too frelling dimwitted and brainwashed to see and understand that fact.
1. The Koran states the Ark setteled on Mt. Al-Judi which is 200 miles south of Ararat. So why have no sighting of the Ark been seen there?
2. If evolution had mountains of irrefutable evidence, it would nolonger be called a theory.
3. And the Ark of Noah according to reports from the past stated it was broken in two, and pictures from space today confirm there is a large manmade object near the top of Arrarat, and it is broken in two.
4. And if the Bible was plagiarized, why are it's prophecies true? And can you tell us what book it copied it's prophecies from?
Now can you give us the name of the Book where the Bible got it's prophecies from, or are you the one that is to brainwashed?
1. The Koran states the Ark setteled on Mt. Al-Judi which is 200 miles south of Ararat. So why have no sighting of the Ark been seen there?
There is no ark...
2. If evolution had mountains of irrefutable evidence, it would nolonger be called a theory.
Just showing your ignorance of the scientific term theory here...
3. And the Ark of Noah according to reports from the past stated it was broken in two, and pictures from space today confirm there is a large manmade object near the top of Arrarat, and it is broken in two.
There has been no confirmation of a "man made" object except in your own mind.
4. And if the Bible was plagiarized, why are it's prophecies true? And can you tell us what book it copied it's prophecies from?
There are no real true prophesies....Just some vague guesses..
Now can you give us the name of the Book where the Bible got it's prophecies from, or are you the one that is to brainwashed?
"Cudi Dagh (Mt Judi) is located approximately 200 miles south of Mt. Ararat in southern Turkey almost within eyesight of the Syrian and Iraqi borders. The Tigris River flows at its base. The exact co-ordinates are 37 degrees, 21 minutes N., and 42 degrees, 17 minutes E., ... just east of the present Turkish city of Gizre and still within the bounds of the Biblical region of Ararat (Urartu). The Nestorians ... built several monasteries around the mountain including one on the summit called "The Cloister of the Ark". It was destroyed by lightning in 766 A.D. The Muslims later built a mosque on the site. In 1910, Gertrude Bell explored the area and found a stone structure still at the summit with the shape of a ship called by the locals "Sefinet Nebi Nuh" "The Ship of Noah". ... As late as 1949 two Turkish journalists claimed to have seen the Ark on this mountain, a ship 500 feet in length!"
And an article from The Observer (London)
LONDON -- Noah's Ark has been found on the Turkish-Iranian border, 32 kilometres from Mount Ararat, according to the leader of a team of scientists that has been investigating the site for six years.
The Turkish government is so convinced by the findings that, after years of intransigence, it has designated the site one of special archaeological interest and agreed to its excavation next summer.
Buried Ark The remote site contains a buried, ship-like object, resting an altitude of 2,300 metres.
At 170 metres long and 45 metres wide, it conforms almost exactly to the 300 cubit by 50 cubit boat that God told Noah to build, according to Genesis 6 in the Bible.
On surrounding terrain, the American and Middle Eastern scientists have identified huge stones with holes carved at one end, which they believe are "drogue-stones," dragged behind ships in the ancient world to stabilize them. Radar soundings indicate unusual levels of iron-oxide distribution.
Salih Bayraktutan, head of geology at Turkey's Ataturk University, estimates the age of the 'vessel' at more than 100,000 years. "It is a man-made structure and for sure it is Noah's Ark."
The site is directly below the mountain of Al Judi, named in the Qur'an as the Ark's resting place.
Quote:
2. If evolution had mountains of irrefutable evidence, it would no longer be called a theory.
Just more proof that you have no understanding whatsoever as to what a scientific theory entails.
Quote:
3. And the Ark of Noah according to reports from the past stated it was broken in two, and pictures from space today confirm there is a large manmade object near the top of Arrarat, and it is broken in two.
Yes, just as satellite images of Mars confirm there is a mile-long face and pyramids on the Cydonia plain..
Quote:
4. And if the Bible was plagiarized, why are it's prophecies true? And can you tell us what book it copied it's prophecies from?
Simple. None of the prophesies in the Bible are true (unless you use ALOT of imagination, do ALOT of contorting and forcing those square pegs into them round holes..)
Quote:
Now can you give us the name of the Book where the Bible got it's prophecies from, or are you the one that is to brainwashed?
The "prophecies" are irrelevant. The authors of The Bible borrowed heavily from Sumerian/Babylonian and Egyptian mythology (e.g. Enuma Elish, Epic of Gilgamesh, Book of The Dead).
Hey Mr. san; loved that little dose of oceanic reality! and that thing is a welded unit-body construction piece with, oh about 200 yrs of engineering experience built into it. Plus, the not-insignificant addition of hydraulic stabilators, else it would have slipped over several times!
Imagine the camels sliding by the vomiting T-Rexs who were tripping on the comatose Brontosauri who overfed on the.... oh eait.. .I forgot; they rfan out of food on day 6 of their 18 mo journey.
And to your ponits, MrBlueSky; you just don't get it do you? C34's Ark is THE Ark, not that other faky Muslim one, which is, by their own admission, made of stone. Tom's is, as he says, buried under ice and yet his WWII pilot saw it and touched it.
It's surely fun to watch the various mythologies scrambling to claim theirs is the one true Ark, all the while realizing that it simply could not have ever been. And denying the recent science that openly found them to be nothing but basalt/limestone. or the realities of oceanic travel as witnessed by san's video.
Wait; I gotta run over to the rail for a minute......
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
