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And to add, if the argument is that I (or many other atheists) somehow secretly desire God and just being rebellious and miserable about it due to my constant discussion of subjects dealing with him, then the fact that in the Bible that God is so concerned with other people's gods must mean that he believes they exist then.
Yeah you're absolutely right. I'm a die-hard atheist and in general I think religion is a bad influence on a lot of people, but even so I've always been interested by religion in general and why it exists, what different people have believed, etc. I took a great class in philosophy in college titled "Religion and Film" and we looked at religious messages in films and even film itself as a modern-day religion ("Film as Religion" is a very good book). I co-authored an essay with the professor of that class for a scholarly book later, "'Hokey Religions and Ancient Weapons': The Force of Spirituality" (essay) in "Finding the Force of the Star Wars Franchise: Fans, Merchandise, & Critics." I have always found different religions very interesting, despite being an atheist, and especially religious connections in the Star Wars franchise has been something I've studied quite a bit. That particular professor is a leading authority (sounds funny, but true) on The Matrix and religion. She was one of the authorities interviewed for that 10-DVD boxed set for The Matrix, discussing its ties and connections to traditional religious beliefs.
The way I see religion is more like mythology. It doesn't concern me much that people still believe in Christianity except as a footnote. It's basically Greek mythology, no more or less real, so it's just interesting to explore from a mythological perspective and also psychological, examining reasons for religion's existence and whatnot.
Funny you should mention that, because one of my religion professors in college made plenty of references to 'the force' and how religion ties in with star wars The psychological reasoning is what got me interested in religion. I had a friend in high school who all of a sudden decided she was a born-again Christian and devoted her life to the church, alienating her family and friends. I was curious as to why she went from being a bright, funny, gregarious young girl to a solemn, boring, ridiculously quiet follower, almost overnight. I also have another friend who did the opposite, she went to a parochial Christian school from the time she was 5, ended up being a pot dealing lesbian in high school (still in Christian school) and currently deals every drug imaginable. I was curious how she could be immersed in religion her entire life, in school, at home etc. and still manage to make very 'unholy' decisions in her life. The psychology behind religion is what fascinates me most.
I have nothing against God, or any religion that does no harm, but I think if nobody spoke up at all, science would be replaced by myth in schools and we would be living in a theocracy with archaic laws. I see a lot of potential harm in some of the major religions. It would be a giant step backwards.
science does not displace religion but only when overlooked upon it appears that way. i mean can you prove evolution without creation?
science does not displace religion but only when overlooked upon it appears that way. i mean can you prove evolution without creation?
Evolution makes the existence of a divine power unnecessary. Also, if you can't empirically prove that god exists, then it is nothing more than a myth. Just because someone doesn't know the answer to something, that doesn't mean 'God did it,' answers anything.
Funny you should mention that, because one of my religion professors in college made plenty of references to 'the force' and how religion ties in with star wars The psychological reasoning is what got me interested in religion. I had a friend in high school who all of a sudden decided she was a born-again Christian and devoted her life to the church, alienating her family and friends. I was curious as to why she went from being a bright, funny, gregarious young girl to a solemn, boring, ridiculously quiet follower, almost overnight. I also have another friend who did the opposite, she went to a parochial Christian school from the time she was 5, ended up being a pot dealing lesbian in high school (still in Christian school) and currently deals every drug imaginable. I was curious how she could be immersed in religion her entire life, in school, at home etc. and still manage to make very 'unholy' decisions in her life. The psychology behind religion is what fascinates me most.
I think you make a good point, that people who are more exposed to religion can turn away from it, while people who have rarely been exposed end up being extremely devoted. I can see how this works, although I have no idea if these two outcomes happen to a majority of people in these scenarios or not. But I do know that many times it is the facts behind the religion that turn people away, and those people that haven't had such realities forced down their throats have an easier time devoting their life to the religion.
I think you make a good point, that people who are more exposed to religion can turn away from it....But I do know that many times it is the facts behind the religion that turn people away, and those people that haven't had such realities forced down their throats have an easier time devoting their life to the religion.
I'm one of those who was born into a whole environment saturated in Christianity who eventually found it VERY lacking and left, seeing the light, so to speak, and feeling so relieved and liberated.
Funny you should mention that, because one of my religion professors in college made plenty of references to 'the force' and how religion ties in with star wars The psychological reasoning is what got me interested in religion. I had a friend in high school who all of a sudden decided she was a born-again Christian and devoted her life to the church, alienating her family and friends. I was curious as to why she went from being a bright, funny, gregarious young girl to a solemn, boring, ridiculously quiet follower, almost overnight. I also have another friend who did the opposite, she went to a parochial Christian school from the time she was 5, ended up being a pot dealing lesbian in high school (still in Christian school) and currently deals every drug imaginable. I was curious how she could be immersed in religion her entire life, in school, at home etc. and still manage to make very 'unholy' decisions in her life. The psychology behind religion is what fascinates me most.
Hey,
I had a really interesting story like that as well, at least it was something that really interested me because it was exactly like you described, it was a snap to the outside world. I suspect in these types of cases, the individual has been internally struggling with their philosophy for quite some time, but not letting it be known to other people for the most part. So it seems literally "overnight" that such a change occurs. I had a friend back home, not a close friend, but a fellow Star Wars fan who I originally met on a forum, he happened to live in a small town not far from where I was, so we saw one of the prequels together, and we hung out maybe one other time for something else, but I had spoken to him a lot on this forum. Anyway, he was a really die-hard, by-the-book Christian. I have to be honest if I was religious I would probably be like that as well, because I can't tolerate hypocrisy and if I was going to follow anything I'd either completely follow it or not at all. I'm kind of an "on-off" personality that way. When I'm working, for instance, I push 12-14 hours per day, I work constantly. When I'm not working I really am not working, can't even bother to do 1 hour of work per day. My brain just shuts on and off with that, it's not a completely obsessive personality condition because I don't have any sort of addictive traits, it's just a matter of being a perfectionist and following through with what I start, which is usually good. But I suspect this friend was similar in the sense that if he was going to be religious, by god, he was gong to do it right!
He read the Bible seriously several times, the guy must have devoted years to studying the Bible and pouring over it, posting on Christian forums, preaching to people, just seemed a bit looney at times but you know, he was a fellow fan, and he understood the films extremely well (that fanatical devotion), so we kept on talking. One day, suddenly, he basically posted and renounced his Christianity. He said he became an atheist. He saw enough Christians to conclude it was all nonsense, and figured that if people really act that way even while saying they're religious, that wasn't a religion he wanted a part of. But then he kept posting at the Christian forum, destroying these peoples' debates, and my god was he good at it!!! He understood ALL of their arguments inside and out, he understood their religion ten times better than they did, he was like some ultimate secret weapon for the atheist cause, haha, a defector with all of the enemy's secrets. It was seriously impressive. He would trounce arguments with a glee and way with words that was fantastic to witness, even for me, and I had went to a religious high school and done my fair share of studying about Christianity and other various religions. But he was the best. That is not the kind of guy you want turning on your religion, someone who knows it better than 99% of adherents, haha.
It was quite the turnaround but I have to say it was awesome to witness first hand like that. Just bam, one day, wakes up and says he has come to think it was all lies, all BS, and that none of it was supportable. I think he really wanted to believe, he wanted those answers and that faith, but ultimately his mind rejected it even if it wanted to believe.
I'm one of those who was born into a whole environment saturated in Christianity who eventually found it VERY lacking and left, seeing the light, so to speak, and feeling so relieved and liberated.
I had a really interesting story like that as well, at least it was something that really interested me because it was exactly like you described, it was a snap to the outside world. I suspect in these types of cases, the individual has been internally struggling with their philosophy for quite some time, but not letting it be known to other people for the most part. So it seems literally "overnight" that such a change occurs. I had a friend back home, not a close friend, but a fellow Star Wars fan who I originally met on a forum, he happened to live in a small town not far from where I was, so we saw one of the prequels together, and we hung out maybe one other time for something else, but I had spoken to him a lot on this forum. Anyway, he was a really die-hard, by-the-book Christian. I have to be honest if I was religious I would probably be like that as well, because I can't tolerate hypocrisy and if I was going to follow anything I'd either completely follow it or not at all. I'm kind of an "on-off" personality that way. When I'm working, for instance, I push 12-14 hours per day, I work constantly. When I'm not working I really am not working, can't even bother to do 1 hour of work per day. My brain just shuts on and off with that, it's not a completely obsessive personality condition because I don't have any sort of addictive traits, it's just a matter of being a perfectionist and following through with what I start, which is usually good. But I suspect this friend was similar in the sense that if he was going to be religious, by god, he was gong to do it right!
He read the Bible seriously several times, the guy must have devoted years to studying the Bible and pouring over it, posting on Christian forums, preaching to people, just seemed a bit looney at times but you know, he was a fellow fan, and he understood the films extremely well (that fanatical devotion), so we kept on talking. One day, suddenly, he basically posted and renounced his Christianity. He said he became an atheist. He saw enough Christians to conclude it was all nonsense, and figured that if people really act that way even while saying they're religious, that wasn't a religion he wanted a part of. But then he kept posting at the Christian forum, destroying these peoples' debates, and my god was he good at it!!! He understood ALL of their arguments inside and out, he understood their religion ten times better than they did, he was like some ultimate secret weapon for the atheist cause, haha, a defector with all of the enemy's secrets. It was seriously impressive. He would trounce arguments with a glee and way with words that was fantastic to witness, even for me, and I had went to a religious high school and done my fair share of studying about Christianity and other various religions. But he was the best. That is not the kind of guy you want turning on your religion, someone who knows it better than 99% of adherents, haha.
It was quite the turnaround but I have to say it was awesome to witness first hand like that. Just bam, one day, wakes up and says he has come to think it was all lies, all BS, and that none of it was supportable. I think he really wanted to believe, he wanted those answers and that faith, but ultimately his mind rejected it even if it wanted to believe.
My grandmother went through a similar phase for around 2 years... She started going to church once a week, then twice..and eventually was there almost all the time. After two years of nonsense she finally snapped and said 'ENOUGH WITH THE HYPOCRISY' (those were her exact words..haha) and became a celtic style pagan bordering on Atheism. She's a crazy woman but so much fun to talk to because she can refute the bible with the best of em. I'm so glad to have her over to the 'dark side'
Haha, amen! We need more Dark Side converts, join the infidels and the heathens!
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The psychological reasoning is what got me interested in religion. I had a friend in high school who all of a sudden decided she was a born-again Christian and devoted her life to the church, alienating her family and friends. I was curious as to why she went from being a bright, funny, gregarious young girl to a solemn, boring, ridiculously quiet follower, almost overnight. I also have another friend who did the opposite, she went to a parochial Christian school from the time she was 5, ended up being a pot dealing lesbian in high school (still in Christian school) and currently deals every drug imaginable. I was curious how she could be immersed in religion her entire life, in school, at home etc. and still manage to make very 'unholy' decisions in her life. The psychology behind religion is what fascinates me most.
