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Well, you've gone and interrupted my private reading of Darwin. Now I'm p##$d!
Quick rebuttals to your thoughtful reply: One: it isn't just between you and I. You know there's a lot of readers here. If I wanted to debate you alone and not mention other salient points by other posters, I'd be talking to you via DM.
In the name of intellectual honesty, I noted, clearly, exactly, what NIKK said and meant as he was, politely and reasonably, conceding to one of my pointed questions about why he/they could NEVER concede anything to us mass of atheists (to your other point that you think "it's just you" . Us lonely atheists, all by ourselves out here, scared, in the wilderness, spititually bereft. You should be so lucky. The utter arrogance and rudeness to suggest that non-Xtians have no spirituality, no deeper understanding, no values, ethics, selfless behavior, altruism, etc. I posit that, absent any need to keep to the strict rules of The Church, we are less hide-bound in our behavior. That, in fact, is proven. I, unlike you, can read Darwin openly without feeling like a traitor.
My proof of intellectual honesty is that I also added NIKK's other comment that we couldn't concede anything. Just to get it ALL out there. No deceptions intended, unlike what I've run into so often with many a Xtian debator.
I will check out your movie. You, in turn, must rent "Goya's Ghosts". Nice little dramatization of the efforts of the church in Spain to "bring heretics' thinking around!". Lovely yet historically true.
To your more recent post which I just read:
You make the logical error (here I mean in the strict philosophical sense of "debating logic rules") of using (i.e: quoting ideas from..) the book of philosophy of Christianity you're trying to prove as proof of it's truth. No no no. Are you that poorly versed in logic or are you just hoping we're not? I have a book here that says "A" exists. Why do I know "A" exists? Stupid person! Because this book says so!
And you think THAT's convincing? Really? Go ahead, say yes. I, we all, want to see you step into the pooh.
Unfortunately absent that sort of "proof", you're outa luck and you know it. Again, so sad. For you.
I'm glad you have such faith in your beliefs. I really am, as you apparently need them, unlike me. I don't need them. Really. You can sleep better about that tonight. I'm sad your beliefs insist that you pester other non-believers. I and the rest of us gathered athesits see that behavior as church-instilled and demanded as yet another fear-mongering power ploy to build up the constituency. That's especially obvious when the community gains a bit of extra leverage, as in the bible belt where the hyper-religious pitchfork and torch crowd gather at 1) the school board offices to ban Darwin, or 2) at the public library to burn a few books.
Sound like the sort of ethical folks you'd like me to happily join up with? I'll bet!
Now, if you'll beg off for a bit, I have some science to read! But let it be known, I won't give up if you won't! You'll have to burn me at the town square after the public stoning and whipping to get me to shut up! And that's also the scary part! See again: The Spanish Inquisition.
Last edited by rifleman; 11-19-2008 at 10:48 AM..
Reason: typos.
Now, if you'll beg off for a bit, I have some science to read! But let it be known, I won't give up if you won't!
No one's forcing you to respond, dear one. But if you don't that really says a lot doesn't it? Don't worry, I'm "begging off" because I have stuff to do, you know like reading the Bible and saving souls.
Quote:
You'll have to burn me at the town square after the public stoning and whipping to get me to shut up!
I'd have a lot more respect for you if you just up and said "I believe what I believe despite the fact that I know there is absolutely no physical proof whatsoever" rather than claiming that there is actually proof. If you were ballsy enough to admit that you have no leg to stand on, but this is what you believe anyway, I'd give you a big thumbs-up and say good on ya, go with what works for you.
But since you insist there's real proof and call me a cop out for not rehashing the same old facts another thousand times when you could just go back and start at the beginning of this thread and see them all again for yourself...well, you're not worth the time, you're lost to reason and thus not worthy of that respect.
I'd have a lot more respect for you if you just up and said "I believe what I believe despite the fact that I know there is absolutely no physical proof whatsoever" rather than claiming that there is actually proof. If you were ballsy enough to admit that you have no leg to stand on, but this is what you believe anyway, I'd give you a big thumbs-up and say good on ya, go with what works for you.
But since you insist there's real proof and call me a cop out for not rehashing the same old facts another thousand times when you could just go back and start at the beginning of this thread and see them all again for yourself...well, you're not worth the time, you're lost to reason and thus not worthy of that respect.
Respect is a two way street. When I make a point you cannot answer, you resort to name calling and ridicule. I stated earlier in this thread that the atheist will not accept the evidence that christians believe in. You must carry the logic through to its completion in order to see the reality of the Creator. Not an easy thing for anyone to do, especially someone who is not a believer. Ask yourself of all knowledge that man has, how much do you know, 5%, 10%, or maybe even 50%? In the percentage that you do not know, is there any chance that there might be something that points to there being a Creator? Can you even admit that much?
Hmmm....really? So child molesters are just a stronger case of "bad conduct"?? Hilter was just someone who needed stronger discipline, such as more slaps on the wrist for killing millions, because he was a "stronger case of bad conduct"?? PULLEEEEEZE.
EVIL. Admit it, it exists and there ARE NO GRAY AREAS.
I have no problem with you using the term "evil". I was just letting you know something about the vocabulary I use (and do not use), and something about how I look at ethics, where I think there are plenty of "gray areas".
Hmmm....really? So child molesters are just a stronger case of "bad conduct"?? Hilter was just someone who needed stronger discipline, such as more slaps on the wrist for killing millions, because he was a "stronger case of bad conduct"?? PULLEEEEEZE.
EVIL. Admit it, it exists and there ARE NO GRAY AREAS.
Sure there are. The guy who passes you in the fast lane doing 15mph over the speed limit, he's evil? The little old lady on a fixed income who doesn't claim her $300 of bingo winnings on her income taxes, is she evil? The 8-yr-old who steals a candy bar at the grocery store, evil? The high-schooler that pays someone else to write a term paper, evil?
I could go on and on about the endless gray areas.
Respect is a two way street. When I make a point you cannot answer, you resort to name calling and ridicule. I stated earlier in this thread that the atheist will not accept the evidence that christians believe in. You must carry the logic through to its completion in order to see the reality of the Creator. Not an easy thing for anyone to do, especially someone who is not a believer. Ask yourself of all knowledge that man has, how much do you know, 5%, 10%, or maybe even 50%? In the percentage that you do not know, is there any chance that there might be something that points to there being a Creator? Can you even admit that much?
So by following logical through to its completion one comes to a conclusion that is completely illogical, irrational, and has no supporting evidence?
So by following logical through to its completion one comes to a conclusion that is completely illogical, irrational, and has no supporting evidence?
Apparently!
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Hilter was just someone who needed stronger discipline, such as more slaps on the wrist for killing millions, because he was a "stronger case of bad conduct"?? PULLEEEEEZE.
