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Old 12-02-2008, 10:13 PM
 
154 posts, read 242,418 times
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Hi

Everyone may say that is what they believe as a faith is what is right.

But There could be only one creator of this universe and what dose he really expect from us.

What proofs he has kept to realize the ultimate truth of life
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Old 12-02-2008, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,441,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samankaru View Post
Hi

Everyone may say that is what they believe as a faith is what is right.

But There could be only one creator of this universe and what dose he really expect from us.

What proofs he has kept to realize the ultimate truth of life
Hi samankaru,
Welcome to the board.

To answer your second question...
I suppose the usual answer (and a good answer) from Christians would be:
We walk by faith, not by sight
2Corinthians 5:7


But then there is this: (speaking of Jesus being raised from the dead)
God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,
because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed,

having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."
Acts 17:30,31
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Old 12-03-2008, 02:17 AM
 
154 posts, read 242,418 times
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Default Faith Or Blind Faith

Hi Richio

Thanks for your reply

Dont you think that faith without any proofs is Blind Faith.

You have quoted verses from the Bible

But according to Christian scholars the bible has over 50000 errors on it.

So how can we take the words of bible as true.

Also the main author of the bible (The New testament) is a liar (He himself agrees that in the bible)

Romans. 3.7
American Standard Version
But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

AmplifiedĀ® Bible
But [you say] if through my falsehood God's integrity is magnified {and} advertised {and} abounds to His glory, why am I still being judged as a sinner?

Darby English Version
For if the truth of God, in my lie, has more abounded to his glory, why yet am *I* also judged as a sinner?

International Standard Version
For if through my falsehood God's truthfulness increases to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?

King James Version
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

Young's Literal Translation
for if the truth of God in my falsehood did more abound to His glory, why yet am I also as a sinner judged?

How can anyone say that the bible contains the teaching of God when it has so many errors and it is also a lie to justify something.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:15 AM
 
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Better translations does not equate to an "error" Did the context of the passage change? No. So how is it an error?

We must remember that the Bible was written by approximately 40 different authors over a period of around 1500 years. Each writer wrote from a different perspective, to a different audience, for a different purpose. We should expect some differences! However, a difference is not a contradiction or an error. It is only an error if there is absolutely no conceivable manner in which the verses or passages can be reconciled. Even if we do not have the answer right now, that does not mean the answer does not exist. Many have found a supposed error in the Bible in relation to history or geography only to find out that the Bible is correct once further archaeological evidence is discovered.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:29 AM
 
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I have a question. If Allah always loved, who did he love before the creation? If Allah always spoke, who did he speak to before the creation?
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Old 12-03-2008, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,441,269 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by samankaru View Post
Hi Richio

Thanks for your reply

Dont you think that faith without any proofs is Blind Faith.

You have quoted verses from the Bible

But according to Christian scholars the bible has over 50000 errors on it.

So how can we take the words of bible as true.

Also the main author of the bible (The New testament) is a liar (He himself agrees that in the bible)

Romans. 3.7
American Standard Version
But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

AmplifiedĀ® Bible
But [you say] if through my falsehood God's integrity is magnified {and} advertised {and} abounds to His glory, why am I still being judged as a sinner?

Darby English Version
For if the truth of God, in my lie, has more abounded to his glory, why yet am *I* also judged as a sinner?

International Standard Version
For if through my falsehood God's truthfulness increases to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?

King James Version
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

Young's Literal Translation
for if the truth of God in my falsehood did more abound to His glory, why yet am I also as a sinner judged?

How can anyone say that the bible contains the teaching of God when it has so many errors and it is also a lie to justify something.
Hi samankaru,
When I last looked at your reply there was formatting syntax making part of your reply difficult to read.
I see you've now corrected the problem.
I used to have the same problem, until I changed to the “standard editor”- the last option at the bottom of:
My Settings | Edit options.

Paul can be difficult to understand, as he tends to also present the “objections” one might offer to his assertions.
Then he proceeds to clarify his teaching, by providing his answer to any confusion even before someone has voiced it.

In doing this he often wrote the “opposing argument” in the first person – essentially taking the other person’s mindset and speaking as they might.
Here’s a verse showing him beginning to take this approach:
What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
Romans 3:3


The verse you selected is a good example.
To really understand what he is saying, you cannot take it out of context, as he is speaking as one who might be confused.
Rom 3:4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written, "THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS, AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED."
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.)
Rom 3:6 May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world?


And then there is the verse which was pulled out of context:
Rom 3:7 But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?
Paul is saying that our unrighteousness contrasts God’s holiness and righteousness – making His total goodness even more distinguishable.
Our lies contrast the truth of God – showing Him to be truthful.

If this is so, how is it that we (all humans) should be judged for our unrighteousness, if it adds to God’s glory?
This was the argument of the Nicolaitans who loved to sin – in order to give glory to God.
(‘A very twisted “justification” for sin!)

And then the context of the verse continues – Paul’s “debate” style of presenting his teaching and fully exploring the issues as one conclusion might lead to another.
Rom 3:8 And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just.
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;

And then he goes on discussing the issue at hand – taking both sides – presenting his teaching and then taking the other side – then answering that confusion.

I don’t think you are actually interested in exactly what Paul was saying – only that he may have seemed to say he was lying.

It can be difficult to follow, but Paul is always consistent in his actual views and he does not call himself a liar.
Logic would dictate that would be a very stupid thing to say anyway.

"Christian" "scholars" who maintain that there are errors, may be referring to their views of a particular translation, but even I can look at the original text to judge for myself the meaning of a particular word.
It's called a concordance - a very large book requiring a magnifying glass.
Now I can use a computer program, so I no longer need a big heavy book.

Many who are educated in theology have been presented with material from a detached point of view.
I really do not know of born again Christians who maintain that the Bible is full of lies or errors.
I suppose there some, but they must feel quite conflicted.

As for myself, I sleep very well at night - knowing that I can trust my Lord, and His Word is true.

Richio

Last edited by Richio; 12-03-2008 at 02:51 PM.. Reason: missed word
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Old 12-03-2008, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,834,343 times
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Paul teaches like he is debating himself. Asking the questions and then giving the answers.

As for the Scholoars who claim there is 50,000 errors, you must understand that none of these error are significant and are merely spelling or misinterpritation in the form of some words have many meanings and must be taken in the context of the particular usage.
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:47 PM
 
154 posts, read 242,418 times
Reputation: 32
Default The accuracy of bible

Hi All

Yes in deed fundamentalist agreed the bible is a man made creation and not a divine revelation

People can make mistakes

Some say the bible dose not have any serious errors.

Then what about the following

The Bible is also pretty good at inaccurately depicting animals. Pretty odd since it is the supposed word of the being who created them.


According to Leviticus 11:5-6 Rabbits (Coney) chew their cud and because of this they are unclean. Last time I checked, rabbits don't chew cud.



According to the Bible, our brother mammal, the bat, is a bird. This one has been debated quite a bit, but if one looks in Leviticus 11:13 a list of Fowls is started, and the Bat is included in this list in Leviticus 11:19.


The locust, grasshopper, and beetle all have four feet according to Leviticus 11:22, then in the next verse, it mentions a group of flying animals with four feet. I can't think of any.


Now Do you agree that the bible is a man made fiction


But in contrast the Quran (The Last Testament) has not even a single error
No one for the past 1400 years has found a single error on it.



Can a human produce such a scripture

"Thanks to its undisputed authenticity, the text of the Quran holds a unique place among the books of Revelation, shared neither by the Old nor the New Testament. In the first two sections of this work, a review was made of the alterations undergone by the Old Testament and the Gospels before they were handed down to us in the form we know today. The same is not true for the Quran for the simple reason that it was written down at the time of the prophet".

Somebody with a counter argument might ask, "How would I know that the Quran is a revelation from the creator?" Do you have any evidence?"

I have evidence that the Quran is a revelation from the creator and this evidence is presented in the next few pages. When the revelation of the Quran commenced in 622 A.D., it was a linguistic miracle. The Quran has a challenge in it. The challenge is for anybody to produce some thing like or similar to the Quran.

This challenge was present in the Quran in Sura no. 17, verse no. 88 which is translated as follows:

" Say: If the whole of mankind and Jinn were together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they back up each other with help and support."

Years passed and nobody was able to meet the challenge. Later (after several years) the challenge in the Quran was eased asking for anyone to produce even ten Suras like those in it. This was in the Quran in Sura no. 11, verse no. 13 which is translated as follows:

" or they may say, "He forged it" Say, "Bring ye then ten Suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than Allah! If ye speak the truth"

Again years passed and nobody was able to successfully meet the challenge. Later the challenge was eased for the second time to produce one Sura like or similar to the Suras in the Quran. The challenge (to anyone) to produce one Sura was presented in the Quran in more than a Sura, one of them was in Sura no. 2, Verse no. 23 which is translated as follows:

"And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers besides Allah, if what you say is true."

Since then, more than fourteen hundred years have passed, and nobody has been able to meet the challenge, and nobody will, because the Quran is the only existing book containing the word of Allah which no man can match or imitate. The most eloquent people in the Arabic language spent years going over and searching the Quran, trying to find any weak or inadequate word or sentence, but they could not. They even went further, trying to find a way to substitute a word or a sentence in the Quran, hoping to convey a similar meaning as the original one, but they failed to do so.

As a result of this, many people, especially linguists, throughout the last fourteen hundred years believed in the Quran as a revelation beyond any human capacity.
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:58 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,563,768 times
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ummm..Mohammed had to change the koran back after the Jews corrupted it. Why would Mohammed even allow this and how do you know its not corrupted now. You don't even know for sure that you will make it to paradise.

The bible is THE most scrutinized book in the world. The Koran wouldn't survive such scrutiny
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:05 PM
 
154 posts, read 242,418 times
Reputation: 32
the few errors i mentioned earlier wasn't it from the bible . Oh ... very well scrutinized to make such errors

Yes the Quran will not survive such a false scrutiny because it is accurate

If not show me one proof

No one did it for 1400 years up to now do you take the challenge

I may recommend your name to the book of Guinness records if you could do it.

The bible fails all modern tests but not the Quran
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