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Old 12-14-2008, 10:58 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,215,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyPoohFan317 View Post
Here is another question that I've faced a lot, and that I will admit I've wrestled with. One of the 10 Commandments has to do with murder (or kill, depends on your translation). Basically God tell us not to kill others, yet He uses war often times (especially in the OT, and there is that battle that is predicted in Revelation) to bring about His plan. I think we can all agree that murdering someone is wrong, but what about the death penalty, and what about wars? Is it wrong/sinful to kill an enemy tango on the battlefield, or is it sinful to execute a murderer???
That depends. Are we doing it out of vengence or are we doing it to punish an offender. We don't cheer and celebrate when an execution has taken place but we can take solice that justice was served.

In a war a soldier is defending himself or performing his duty to defend his country, the bible has no problem with this
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:00 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,215,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condemned View Post
"Do not do to others what you do not want done to you" and with that, I live life within responsible fashion.

That covers it all and that's my religion.
Without God, why woould you care about others. If there was no God and you had something I would want then I would kill you for it, there is nothing to hold me back or hold me accountable.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:21 AM
 
Location: New York
321 posts, read 626,326 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Without God, why woould you care about others. If there was no God and you had something I would want then I would kill you for it, there is nothing to hold me back or hold me accountable.
I don't know of Buddhist having a history of killing people and they are 'without God.' How are they doing that? Scandanavian countries are not as passionate about God or the bible as you and many others in this country are and yet, they seem to care far more about each other than we do over here.
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:29 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,215,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condemned View Post
I don't know of Buddhist having a history of killing people and they are 'without God.' How are they doing that? Scandanavian countries are not as passionate about God or the bible as you and many others in this country are and yet, they seem to care far more about each other than we do over here.
Because God exist, if He didn't then the Buddhist wouldn't care
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:42 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,946,926 times
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Condemned, if you do not believe that God created all things, you can rant and rave at the biblical accounts of God's doings without fear.
If you believe that you are part of God's creation, where do you think your rantings are placing you in His eyes? Can the clay rave at the potter for making it as it is?? If the potter creates something that he decides is not worthy of being kept, hasn't he the right to change or dispose of it?
It is good that you are so upset about 'innocent' people being smitten, but you are looking at things from a human standpoint. God is looking at the overall picture.

Whether we live a long life, or whether it is shortened, we (adults) all have the opportunity of attaining eternal life, where there is none of the evils that we see in this life. It is our choice. It has always been mankind's choice. From the very beginning of time, man has had the choice of how he will behave towards others, including God. From the beginning many have chosen to do evil.

Regardless of who or what God is.. if He is the creator of all things, (and I am fully persuaded that he is) , how dare the created question and condemn Him for how He does things!

So...you would prefer a God who does as you would have Him do! Where do you get the inflated idea of what great wisdom you have?? There have been billions of humans on earth, and not one of them has the wisdom of God!

Thanks be to God, mere humans are not in charge of how this earth and it's inhabitants are to be judged. It is quite obvious that man has botched almost every type of governing that they have tried.
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:54 PM
 
Location: New York
321 posts, read 626,326 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianinark View Post
Condemned, if you do not believe that God created all things, you can rant and rave at the biblical accounts of God's doings without fear.
If you believe that you are part of God's creation, where do you think your rantings are placing you in His eyes? Can the clay rave at the potter for making it as it is?? If the potter creates something that he decides is not worthy of being kept, hasn't he the right to change or dispose of it?
It is good that you are so upset about 'innocent' people being smitten, but you are looking at things from a human standpoint. God is looking at the overall picture.

Whether we live a long life, or whether it is shortened, we (adults) all have the opportunity of attaining eternal life, where there is none of the evils that we see in this life. It is our choice. It has always been mankind's choice. From the very beginning of time, man has had the choice of how he will behave towards others, including God. From the beginning many have chosen to do evil.

Regardless of who or what God is.. if He is the creator of all things, (and I am fully persuaded that he is) , how dare the created question and condemn Him for how He does things!

So...you would prefer a God who does as you would have Him do! Where do you get the inflated idea of what great wisdom you have?? There have been billions of humans on earth, and not one of them has the wisdom of God!

Thanks be to God, mere humans are not in charge of how this earth and it's inhabitants are to be judged. It is quite obvious that man has botched almost every type of governing that they have tried.
Hi Marian. First of all, how was church? How you had lots of fun and spirited for the coming week in this crazy world we live in. By the way, did you see George bush getting two shoes thrown at his head in Iraq. LOL

Well you see, my dear. It's not about inflated idea of wisdom. The same disdain I have for seeing people taking advantage of the disadvantaged or people in power using their power to abuse others or flaunt their lordship (and I could care less who it is), I take issue because that stuff destroys the human soul/spirit in one form or another. I love my mother dearly, but I'd tell her where she could go if she EVER came at me wrong. I'm a rebel at heart and you HAVE to come good for me to buy into an argument. Even when I was in church, I used to often go to my pastors with questions and used to listen to them bumble their way through all kinds of responses that made no sense.

My thing is, if the biblical god is this ultimate source of morality, why am I more moral in my thinking than he is? Why would I feel the need to instruct my so-called "chosen people" to kill others for petty human crap? Heck, I'd create another place of "milk and honey" and give it to them and then go smite all the people who are pissing me off in other parts of the world.

There is NOTHING that halts progress than lack of critical thinking; operative word being 'critical.'
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,263,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condemned View Post
I'm going from memory right now because I am being too lazy.

In a couple of places in the New Testament, Jesus speaks to an audience using parables. On one occasion where he speaks in that "God speaks in mysterious ways" style, his audience is totally confused as to what he is talking about. Even his Disciples are confused and (if I recall) he has to explain the meaning of the parable to them. Before doing so, he quotes [supposedly] quotes a scripture from the book of Isaiah which states that the people have ears and cannot hear, eyes but cannot see LEST they understand clearly and I guess, become saved? Why should they not understand and be saved? To make matters even more perplexing, he tells his Disciples that while the other poor bastards are completely lost as to what he is talking about (lest they be saved), to them was granted the privilege to "get it." Why is one group purposely left in the dark while another group is given enlightenment? Is this fair? What if you or I are included in the group that's NOT supposed to "get it" and that we are told it is done on purpose?

Add to that another scripture in the Gospel of John. I am reminded of it because another person posted the scripture from that same book where Jesus says his sheep hears and knows his voice. This is what prompted this thread. In the same book, Jesus says (allegedly) that no one can come to him unless the father draws him [to Jesus]. What if the father chooses NOT to draw you? Can that person be blamed for his mental state of rejection toward this god?
Ok I am going to present something that many may not agree with. We do understand that angels and demons are not of the elect and therefor cannot be saved. We understand, or at least some of us do, that the nephilim are the offspring of human/angel(demon) intercourse. We also understand that the nephilim also existed after the flood and can only surmise that the fallen angels did it again and could possible still be doing it but on a lesser level. This would lead us to believe that there are some who are automatically spiritually seperated from God from their inception and possible without human souls to even be eligable for inclusion into the elect. These people are the very ones who turn others away from the truth with their lies and perversions of the truth. This makes it very possible that these hybrids are not allowed to see and believe but it is possibe they have the ability to see and believe. I know this sounds confusing, but I believe the Lord knows what He is doing and will reveal all to all who He chooses and leave out those who arent even of the truth.
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:15 PM
 
Location: New York
321 posts, read 626,326 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Ok I am going to present something that many may not agree with. We do understand that angels and demons are not of the elect and therefor cannot be saved. We understand, or at least some of us do, that the nephilim are the offspring of human/angel(demon) intercourse. We also understand that the nephilim also existed after the flood and can only surmise that the fallen angels did it again and could possible still be doing it but on a lesser level. This would lead us to believe that there are some who are automatically spiritually seperated from God from their inception and possible without human souls to even be eligable for inclusion into the elect. These people are the very ones who turn others away from the truth with their lies and perversions of the truth. This makes it very possible that these hybrids are not allowed to see and believe but it is possibe they have the ability to see and believe. I know this sounds confusing, but I believe the Lord knows what He is doing and will reveal all to all who He chooses and leave out those who arent even of the truth.
Robin, your line of reasoning is where mine was about 9 years ago. It makes for great discussion I will admit but it is a theory for now. IT would even make a great movie. I REALLY love the discussion about the Nephilims too, but when it comes to faith, just about any of these things can fly. Maybe we can discuss it some more in another thread. I'll trhwo on my "christian" hat for a minute and entertain it.
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,810,612 times
Reputation: 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Condemned View Post
Hi Marian. First of all, how was church? How you had lots of fun and spirited for the coming week in this crazy world we live in. By the way, did you see George bush getting two shoes thrown at his head in Iraq. LOL

Well you see, my dear. It's not about inflated idea of wisdom. The same disdain I have for seeing people taking advantage of the disadvantaged or people in power using their power to abuse others or flaunt their lordship (and I could care less who it is), I take issue because that stuff destroys the human soul/spirit in one form or another. I love my mother dearly, but I'd tell her where she could go if she EVER came at me wrong. I'm a rebel at heart and you HAVE to come good for me to buy into an argument. Even when I was in church, I used to often go to my pastors with questions and used to listen to them bumble their way through all kinds of responses that made no sense.

My thing is, if the biblical god is this ultimate source of morality, why am I more moral in my thinking than he is? Why would I feel the need to instruct my so-called "chosen people" to kill others for petty human crap? Heck, I'd create another place of "milk and honey" and give it to them and then go smite all the people who are pissing me off in other parts of the world.

There is NOTHING that halts progress than lack of critical thinking; operative word being 'critical.'
......you are a very confused man Condemned......you contradict yourself...you make no sense...just endless, pointless, extremely long, boring, tiring babble.........ugh....Love.
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Central US
852 posts, read 1,247,296 times
Reputation: 465
Default touched by God

I believe we are all predestined. God knew if your heart could be softened from the moment you were conceived. He gives us, who do believe, what we need..he even shows those who do not believe. We may not like that there are those out there who will never turn to God...but we know that it happens. We do not know who has been predestined for what. We have no clue what you are predistined for; therefore, we must not bend to your level of unbelieving...and we must stand tall in our beliefs....for all we know, tomorrow God can touch you in a way that you cannot deny him. I'm sure you have an awful lot of people praying on this forum for you....like it or not.
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