Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Interesting post. Your posts usually are. I'm highly curious how can anyone from Mississippi have the courage to post such opinions. Having read many of your posts in various threads I sometimes get the sneaking suspicion you are actually a believer (Mississippi!) and writing a book dealing with hard questions about god and his "strange ways". Where else can one gather so many hardened attitudes (using logic and reason) about god's cruelty, and non-existence, than on these forums? Here one can find the questions that will baffle the usual christian.
I'm stuck on your final paragraph.
"If there is a god..."(!) If
How can god not ignore and stay silent at the same time? Isn't that a contradiction.
If the ideas you put forth in the closing, then wouldn't it be more accurate that the followers (priests, rabbis, evangelists, etc.) of god should preach correctly:
-contrary to popular belief god does not answer prayer, nor does god care about your worst moments. Consequently, prayer or believing in miracles is a waste of time.
-god does not value each and every life, and the way we value (or devalue) life should be also our free-will without any fear of revenge from god.
-god demonstrates no love in this world, but we are free to love without restrictions.
If these concepts were preached then the opinions about the situation in the photo may be quite different.
Also, I wouldn't call a world with or without god, a free will world. It's just existence.
Yes, I reside in Mississippi. I assure you that I do not believe in God and I also assure you that I am not writing a book to examine the difficult questions that people have about God.
In so much as my last paragraph goes, I apologize if it sounded misleading. I was mainly addressing my response to someone who is a believer and thus the context of my words seemed to take on the hypothetical "If... Then..." to try and reconcile the differing viewpoints.
As far as 'free will' is concerned, I happen to agree with you on it just being 'existence'. Free will seems to imply that we were given something by some sort of authoritarian position. However, I am also trying to simultaneously address the idea that if we had 'free will' as many believers suggest, there are a lot of barriers of illogicity needed to overcome in order to reconcile a God who answers prayers/interferes with our lives while simultaneously handing us 'free will'. As I said, if God intervened or answered just one prayer for every person alive, that would change no less than 6 billion events and the cascading results, actions and interactions of those events would lead to a multitude of decisions needed to be played out based on all of those interactions. In effect, one answered prayer or intervention could literally grow and amalgamate to the point that the entire human race is interacting and responding to one single changed event rather than events that would have happened had they happened without God's interference. That, to me, is hardly indicative of a 'free will' universe in which we are free to make our own decisions as dictated by some sort of omnipotent law-giver.
I am genuinely curious to see if anyone here who has any measure of faith in any kind of God can explain this. Lets not even think about the holocaust or other mass genocides, all the wars carried out in the name of religion, the murder, rape etc. JUST EXPLAIN THIS PICTURE:
This picture, by noted photographer Kevin Carter, won the Pulitzer Prize in 1994. He took it during a famine in Sudan, Africa. The girl in the picture, near death, is attempting to crawl to a United Nations Food camp located a kilometre away. The vulture behind her is waiting for her to die, so it can eat her, as vultures do when they sense animals near death.
Photographer Kevin Carter left the area immediately after taking the picture, and workers at the United Nations food camp said that on that day no girl of that size came into the camp after the time the photo was taken. We can rationally assume that this child met the fate of so many other children in Africa: starvation and a slow agonizing death. 3 months after the photo was taken, Kevin Carter committed suicide, blaming the "agony and guilt" he felt over doing nothing to help the girl.
SO my question is: IF A SO-CALLED GOD ALLOWS THIS, WHY SHOULD ANYONE WORSHIP OR EVEN RESPECT THAT GOD?!
Make no mistake about it, this kind of thing is happening EVERY. SINGLE. DAY around the world. Innocent children are dying ever single day.
I Would like to hear a logical answer from anyone. "God works in mysterious ways" is not an answer. How about real logic, perhaps by someone with a real college education? Just tell me why I should not just believe in, but worship and obey any God who allows this torture of the innocent.
ANYONE?
This is the reason why the Gnostic Christians believe that the creator is evil. I tend to think that this has nothing to do with a creator, and if there were one It is evil.
Because our first human parents wanted to know what life would be like WITHOUT God. They wanted to be able to rule themselves. This picture is a perfect example of why we do need God.
I know why God doesn't intervene, but why didn't the photographer?!?!
do you know what the photographer did after taking the photo? My question to christians is this: if you all think that this man should have helped that child, why doesn't your god feel this way?
I agree that he should have done something, but it is part of the photographers' code to not get involved in their shots when it comes to this kind of thing. I do not agree with that, and he struggled with it. Unfortunately the anguish over what he should have done is is why he later killed himself.
That is so sad that he killed himself. The man really suffered and had a conscience, but this so called God doesn't have a big enough conscience to kill himself and certainly not the power to do anything about it.
Quote:
I assure you Visvaldis, when I saw the photo, I had a physical reaction. I saw the photo at first glance and had to scroll down immediately...I can't even look at it. Having 4 children...2 about the same age as the child in this photo...I was moved...it doesn't matter that it wasn't my child. It makes me feel helpless and want to find the answers to the same questions asked in the OP.
It's absurd that you think my faith deadens my empathy...so not the case.
How can anyone have faith after seeing this and viewing the world? Not answer because that was not a real question.
Quote:
Nonetheless we as humans "Choose" which path we take in life.
This child and millions like her had no path to choose. They are innocent.
When God allows someone to be hurt or to die the christians can always fall back on, it is us who are responsible or the devil. We are the scapegoats for God's unwillingness to act, but of course there is no real God.
The only time God steps in to save anyone is when a Christian prays to him, and then if that prayer is not answered then they say that God said NO. Let a Christian pray to their almighty God to stop the famine and see if he listens.
Last edited by Mattie Jo; 01-29-2009 at 06:34 AM..
do you know what the photographer did after taking the photo? My question to christians is this: if you all think that this man should have helped that child, why doesn't your god feel this way?
Read through the rest of the thread...yes, I do know.
I understand why God has allowed humans to dig themselves/ourselves into the hole that we are in. God created perfect conditions for humans...and yes, Troop, He did give us free will. A question of God's sovereignty was raised by Satan in heaven. Humans followed Satan in this rebellion. Essentially, God said, "Fine you think you can do it on your own...give it a try". He took away the the perfect conditions...let mankind and the earth age without His maintainance. The atrocities that we see today worldwide are the direct result of humans, not God. God will step in and set things straight, restore the perfect conditions. The "Lord's Prayer" says it all...the heavenly kingdom is the only solution. When? No one knows. I'm sure He knows when the time is right. If He stepped in too early perhaps the original rebellion, the question of God's sovereignty, would not be answered suffiently.
I don't think any explanation from us believers would be acceptable to someone who has their mind made up about the existence of God.
What's your solution? What is your solution for this little child and all the other problems?
I would certainly want God to take control if I were starving to death with a buzzard following me, or if I were directly causing that of an innocent child.
Maybe if God did those things you described, the world would actually be a decent place. Instead he sits back with a bowl of popcorn and waits for people to die so he can go over the list of everything they did in their lives and judge them. That, or he doesn't exist, which makes a lot more sense.
That is so true. The Hindus call this world God's Play. Even they have an excuse for him. He is actually sitting at the TV, which is the world, and enjoying the movie. The Buddhist call it karma, saying that that little child did something wrong in a past life, which is also a Hindu belief, and so they don't take much interest in a child starving to death because the child deserved it from a past action.
The Buddhist call it karma, saying that that little child did something wrong in a past life, which is also a Hindu belief, and so they don't take much interest in a child starving to death because the child deserved it from a past action.
Wrong. If a Buddhist was capable of helping that child and did not, he or she would incur a lot of bad karma. If they were not in a position to help, they would be comforted by the thought that the child could shortly be reincarnated into a better life.
Read through the rest of the thread...yes, I do know.
I understand why God has allowed humans to dig themselves/ourselves into the hole that we are in. God created perfect conditions for humans...and yes, Troop, He did give us free will. A question of God's sovereignty was raised by Satan in heaven. Humans followed Satan in this rebellion. Essentially, God said, "Fine you think you can do it on your own...give it a try". He took away the the perfect conditions...let mankind and the earth age without His maintainance. The atrocities that we see today worldwide are the direct result of humans, not God. God will step in and set things straight, restore the perfect conditions. The "Lord's Prayer" says it all...the heavenly kingdom is the only solution. When? No one knows. I'm sure He knows when the time is right. If He stepped in too early perhaps the original rebellion, the question of God's sovereignty, would not be answered suffiently.
I don't think any explanation from us believers would be acceptable to someone who has their mind made up about the existence of God.
What's your solution? What is your solution for this little child and all the other problems?
Quote:
If He stepped in too early perhaps the original rebellion, the question of God's sovereignty, would not be answered suffiently.
So God's sovereignty is more important than the lives of us on earth and he allows suffering and death to happen. What an egotist god your religion paints.
Why not preach the reality about god.
The followers (priests, rabbis, evangelists, etc.) of god should preach correctly:
-contrary to popular belief god does not answer prayer, nor does god care about your worst moments. Consequently, prayer or believing in miracles is a waste of time.
-god does not value each and every life, and the way we value (or devalue) life should be also our free-will without any fear of revenge from god.
-god demonstrates no love in this world, but we are free to love without restrictions.
Wrong. If a Buddhist was capable of helping that child and did not, he or she would incur a lot of bad karma. If they were not in a position to help, they would be comforted by the thought that the child could shortly be reincarnated into a better life.
Sorry, I have been a Buddhist, and I have been a Hindu, and I can tell you that the Buddhists especially don't believe in doing charity, except for a few groups like Thich Nhat Hanh. Most groups say that the way you help others is to just meditate and teach others the same. They actually put down engaged Buddhism.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am genuinely curious to see if anyone here who has any measure of faith in any kind of God can explain this. Lets not even think about the holocaust or other mass genocides, all the wars carried out in the name of religion, the murder, rape etc. JUST EXPLAIN THIS PICTURE:
