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I am curious about something, if the Pilgrims came to America to be free to practice the religion that they wanted and that was what "this country has been founded on". Than why do I hear so often that our fore fathers were Christians and that is why we should bow to Christianity in America. And why were so many innocent people were killed in Salem when they were or accused of being witches. It just seems like some serious confusion. Any takes on this?
I am curious about something, if the Pilgrims came to America to be free to practice the religion that they wanted and that was what "this country has been founded on". Than why do I hear so often that our fore fathers were Christians and that is why we should bow to Christianity in America. And why were so many innocent people were killed in Salem when they were or accused of being witches. It just seems like some serious confusion. Any takes on this?
A lot of the Salem era was due to hysteria, at least initially. After the novelty of the girls' constant accusations wore off, it turned into a land-battle; the accused 'witches' had often been given land -- a fair amount of it, too, by many accounts -- which would, upon their death, become property of the original landholder again.
As for the first question -- the original intent of forming the United States was to protect religious liberty, for all religions -- mainland Europe had become a 'religious dictatorship', in that the Church was the major form of leadership at the time, and the original settlers broke away to form a country where a religious body wouldn't have such a high position in society.
Thanks for your post. It doesnt seem like many want to comment on this. It is interesting to me how America has allowed some of the exact things that they were running from in England happen here with religion.
Well, I can offer this based on observation and research, and this information is on the internet, in local libraries and in journals stretching in collections all over the New England Area
Remember first, the the pilgrams, a branch of Engish Seperatists who wanted escape from what they believed to be persecution from the Church of England. What they REALLY want was the opportunity to persecute others, rather than be the persecutees.
If you look at the Puritan influence of The New England colonies throughout the 17th century, and the historical record is explicit, these individuals did everything from burning and torturing supposed witches to banning the celebration of Christmas ! no wonder England would not want people like that. These people Did NOT want a republic or a democracy, they wanted a THEOCRACY, and that theocracy with Their beliefs as the core.
Fact is, if you look at their attitudes and philosophy, THEY WERE NOT NICE PEOPLE !!!!
I apologize for not going on and on
the computer kept crashing.
NOW Someone will come on and say "Well that is God's Will You should not be telling these things about the Pilgrams and God punished you by making your computer crash..." I know sounds ridiculous
BUT Hey I lived around these people, I know how superstitous and fearful they are about vengeful dieties....
BTW the Problem was not caused by GOD It was caused by an error in the internet explorer. Once restored and cleared, the program works fine
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Now to continue the post, IF I may, and again, I encourage you to verufy this info and you will see it is factual, consider something along the Lines of what FRED NOT BOB said, he is correct and I want to expand on his comment about England (and Europe) being a "religious dictatorship" Please note that this was one of the contributing factors Of the English Civil War (1642-1651) King Charles I was an Anglican and thus the Anglican movement was through him highly influential in England. Consider too, that a later leader, Oliver Cromwell, as a result of this revolution, would be accused of catholic genocide.
SO consider the context of religious theocracy (through the crown at elast) that was brewing in England.
(On a side note, the anglican order is probably in the 21st century the most tolerant of any protestant movements in America) Not so in the 1600's, and not so under the rule of Charles I
Now English Seperatists, Puritans, as the pilgrams DID want a chanceto practice their beliefs and they were not tolerated by the Anglican Church.
SO they went on to America. Problem is, when One looks closely at the tents of these beliefs, what exists is a very dogmatic, regimented and highly restrictive religious system that Fr Leo Booth and others would Most LIkely label as an abusive religion. Soncider the biblical reference of Killing witches ; this was a common practice in England as well, as innocent pagans were executed just for having a different set of beliefs. IF we then look at the similarity in Salem, we see further proof of an intolerant, abusive religious system.
I would suggest too that one look closely at the rules and laws in the New England Colonies and how religous many of these laws were, including a ban on celebrating Christmas , not to metnion punishments of whipping and stockaides for religious infractions.
If one thinks of Modern Day Theocraticly uinfluenced nations, such as Iran, complete with public beatings and executions, I can see where the Pilgrams and many of the northeastern colonists were not too far off of that ideal. Consider too that the lives of the Native Americans, the "Red Savages" so to speak, were equally worthless to these colonists as well. It would seem that along t with the Thanksgiving feast myth, a sense of elitism quickly formed as colonies expanded over stolen native lands.
Interestingly, it would later be the influence of deistic thinkers and southern cavalier types which would check the power of rthe religious right during the formation of the nation. I think if anything, there is evidence amongst writings especially of Payne that illustrate the evils of religious rule, and probably the example of this would be the puritan movement.
The point is, history has painted a pastoral picture of pilgram and puritanical life in the colonies, and it was anything but, and evidence points to religious abuse and presecution at the hands of the puritans. Fortunately we have freedom from religion in America now, and while we still have fear-based religioins (which existed long before Christianity was started) and we still have hate based religions (like Christianity and Islam) BUT we have something better, we have personal freedom and liberty and for that much we are protected as much as we can be. In theory at least.
I think our thoughts about the Pilgrims have been romanticized a great deal and it's simplistic to think that their only purpose was based on a desire to have religious freedom. I'm sure that there were a number of very practical and pragmatic reasons for wanting to establish a new settlement and it probably varied a great deal from one person to the next. Everything that I remember about the Pilgrims from grade school and beyond seems like the Disney version and I doubt very much that we have a realistic idea of what their lives were really like or what their motivations may have been.
As far as the Salem witch trials are concerned we have to consider the fact that in those days people often held beliefs that would seem laughable today even by the most religious among us (and I don't mean that as an insult to religious people). The same sort of thing was happening in Europe and had been taking place for centuries so it's really not so surprising that our earliest settlers whose roots were in Europe also engaged in behavior that seems superstitious and barbaric today.
There is a great deal of misunderstanding here. The Pilgrims were separatists and were very friendly toward the natives and that sentiment was returned by the Natives. I recommend, rather than heeding the stereotypical self-appointed spokespersons for the Native Americans, that actual conversation be held with individuals who see these historical events in unique and individual ways. That would be truly non-racist. The desire of the Pilgrims was to separate from people with whom they did not agree, not impose themselves upon them. From what I have read, no one ever successfully accused any of their number of witchcraft and in the case of the few instances where the accusation was made, the accusers were fined for false accusation. I am not sure, but I think that there is little to no incident of witch burning in America. People convicted of witchcraft were hung, and the incident of that was quite low. The Puritans were more strenuous in their imposition of religious ideas and are a significantly different group from the myriad others who have made up the founding of this country. They are non-the-less, very valuable in their contributions to a true break with oppressive European governments and I suggest, in spite of any shortcomings, to be appreciated. There are two ideas that I think are often overlooked in the concern about witchcraft. Were there not insane people at that time who would be the historic equivalent of the modern day serial murderer about which, the terminology may be different, but the legitimate concern would be justified? Second, their is a prevailing religious ideology that sets the ground for any common human endeavor. One must seek out what that is, and perhaps engage in change within it, but is sadly mistaken in the BELIEF that common human endeavors exist without one. The only religious persecution and tyranny that I observe in this country, comes from the backward notion that government should mandate and manipulate our lives. Please read original historical documents about these and other historical events. They generally give a much more clear picture. It is unfortunate that historians seem to be caught up in sensationalism and agendas.
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