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Old 10-09-2009, 09:24 AM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,453,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slashsdfz View Post
As far as I am concerned, look at your hands, feet, your child. Look at the trees, the sky, the sunset. Drink water, breathe air. That is good enough proof to me that we were created on a planet that we can live on.
That is no proof at all that there might be an invisible, and actually very mean hateful SOB, imaginary sky spook.

Ask someone that understands the biological sciences how it all works when you look at your hands, feet, etc. as that is where the truth is, not in the greatest hoax ever played on mankind, religion.

Given the state of this planet, the blind hatred that is exhibited in the name of your deity, hell yea, I'd stay out of sight also, who would want to be associated with the behavior of sky spook followers as they treat others.
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:56 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,553,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slashsdfz View Post
God does not NEED to prove himself .
Actually he/she/it does. He/she/it comes from the words and imagination of primitive mankind who knew nothing beyond his few hundred square miles. He was almost totally ignorant and god was a figment of his imagination.

Fairy tales about big fish puking up live men, seas parting, flooding which built up nearly six miles of water on the face of the earth then evaporated within a few months, walls that fell at an opportune time, men surviving 1200 degree fire, healing by touching, raising from the dead, feeding 5000+ with two fish and five loaves then gathering twelve baskets of leftovers, water into wine, virgin birth, resurrection, etc.

Oh yes...we need something beyond the word of primitive mankind.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
2,754 posts, read 6,087,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slashsdfz View Post
As I look around these forums, I can't help but notice people pleading for evidence of God's existence. God does not NEED to prove himself. Someone please show me, in the Bible, where it says GOD MUST PROVE HIMSELF. He does not need to. Why SHOULD God prove himself? Even if He DID, the disbelievers would still be...disbelievers - just like those that don't believe we landed on the moon to THIS DATE, they wouldn't believe in God if he appeared before them.

As far as I am concerned, look at your hands, feet, your child. Look at the trees, the sky, the sunset. Drink water, breathe air. That is good enough proof to me that we were created on a planet that we can live on. However, God needs no REASON to prove Himself to anyone. It is your choice to find Him, not for Him to find you.
Hmm...I too look around at nature and that's where I find God. But I consider myself a Pantheist, or a Deist, and don't for a minute believe in a personal, caring, judging God. Also, seeing the beauty in nature and them human body is something that many, if not most, agnostics and atheists do as well. They just rightly realzise these things are the products of millions of years of evolution.
You fundies hand me a laugh. If you pray and get what you want, you claim that it's because God answered. If you pray and DON'T get what you asked for, you say it's because God has other plans. Now, since there has never been a shred of proof of a personal God during the entirity of man's existence, you say, well, hell, he doesn't need to prove anything.
I could do the same thing with the little invisible man on my shoulder routine. "Oh, you don't see him? Well, he's there, trust me. I CAN see him and he doesn;t have to show himself to you!"
Peace.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:47 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,553,089 times
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Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
If you pray and get what you want, you claim that it's because God answered. If you pray and DON'T get what you asked for, you say it's because God has other plans.
I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind & keep them shut by force.
~Mark Twain~

Last edited by Melvin.George; 10-09-2009 at 12:48 PM.. Reason: correction
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Old 10-09-2009, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
3,770 posts, read 10,553,170 times
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God exist for the ones who believe,it is proof positive in their hearts and mind.Disbelievers have to have the tangibles,everything spelled out for them and then that is not enough,circle of fallacy logic or whatever the case


People come to God because they want to have a personal relationship with Him,they are not out there trying to disprove Him but how they can improve themselves and draw nearer to be more Christ-like..
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Old 10-09-2009, 03:16 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,553,089 times
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Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
Disbelievers have to have the tangibles,everything spelled out for them.
You got it. I've been told by the best that I'm analytical. I accept nothing as rediculous as Jack and the Beanstalk. I have analyzed everything ad neuseam all my life. SHOW ME!!
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Old 10-09-2009, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,506 posts, read 37,025,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
God exist for the ones who believe,it is proof positive in their hearts and mind.Disbelievers have to have the tangibles,everything spelled out for them and then that is not enough,circle of fallacy logic or whatever the case
So does Santa, but people generally outgrow that myth...People believe in God because because they are seduced by the myth of everlasting life, and that they will be able to cavort with all their departed loved ones for eternity.
This stems from their fear of death and a desperate need to assign meaning to their life..Logic does not apply, nor is wanted in this blind belief.

Quote:
People come to God because they want to have a personal relationship with Him,they are not out there trying to disprove Him but how they can improve themselves and draw nearer to be more Christ-like..
If the reason they believe is self improvement, then it is a classic failure. The prisons are stuffed with these failures. I find Christians to be the most dishonest people I know, but since they lie even to themselves to keep their myths intact, I probably should expect that.
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Old 10-09-2009, 04:15 PM
Sco
 
4,259 posts, read 4,905,639 times
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God definitely needs to either provide proof of his existence or be doomed to only be worshipped by mindless simpletons. Why would a god create humans with the capacity for independent thought and inquisitive reason and then choose to eternally punish the people that actually made use of these gifts? It is absurd to assert that the same god that created humans to think and investigate their surroundings would be impressed by the fawning adoration of a group of ignorant automatons that rely on nothing more than a book of fairy tales with a questionable provenance.
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Old 10-09-2009, 04:18 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 4,156,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slashsdfz View Post
As I look around these forums, I can't help but notice people pleading for evidence of God's existence. God does not NEED to prove himself. Someone please show me, in the Bible, where it says GOD MUST PROVE HIMSELF. He does not need to. Why SHOULD God prove himself?
When you say "God", I assume you are talking about the biblical god.
The fairy tales in the bible, and the physical evidence we have built up over the years, disproves the biblical god.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slashsdfz View Post
Even if He DID, the disbelievers would still be...disbelievers - just like those that don't believe we landed on the moon to THIS DATE, they wouldn't believe in God if he appeared before them.
This is just a pure fantasy. These people who deny plan facts are usually called delusional. You know, like creationist.
If a god appear before me, and proved that he/she/it exist, I would believe, but it still wouldn't prove the biblical god, only that a god exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slashsdfz View Post
As far as I am concerned, look at your hands, feet, your child. Look at the trees, the sky, the sunset. Drink water, breathe air. That is good enough proof to me that we were created on a planet that we can live on.
As far as you are concerned, the bible says that god created everything. So no matter what, everything is proof of god, because the bible said so. I know this logic seem sound to you, but to someone who thinks rationally, these types of circular claims are not proof on anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slashsdfz View Post
However, God needs no REASON to prove Himself to anyone. It is your choice to find Him, not for Him to find you.
You believe that you must believe in a god, or go to hell.

Lets put it this way.
If I saw you standing in front of a train, but for some reason, you where unable to see, hear, or feel the rumble of the tracks. I would push you out of the way.
But in the case of your imaginary friend, you think he will just stand there and watch as this train (hell) gets closer and closer.

Mrbluesky sums up my thoughts on the biblical god perfectly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlueSky_ View Post
Yes but of course, if you are going to bring logic into the mix then Bible God is in no way shape or form the creator.. especially considering he's nothing more than a tribal totem and was passed down, along with The Bible, from earlier Sumerian mythology.

If there is a creator of this universe then logcially, he/she/it is a far more intelligent, rational and logical being than the selfish man-made anthropomorphized monster called Yahweh.
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:37 PM
 
63,494 posts, read 39,789,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco View Post
God definitely needs to either provide proof of his existence or be doomed to only be worshipped by mindless simpletons. Why would a god create humans with the capacity for independent thought and inquisitive reason and then choose to eternally punish the people that actually made use of these gifts? It is absurd to assert that the same god that created humans to think and investigate their surroundings would be impressed by the fawning adoration of a group of ignorant automatons that rely on nothing more than a book of fairy tales with a questionable provenance.
I could have written this 30 or 40 years ago (probably did in some form or other). It was the central theme of my life as a buddhist atheist and meditator. I've spent the intervening decades since my meditation "epiphany" trying to answer it. ALL explanations failed the smell test and I despaired of ever "getting it" . . . even though I was absolutely certain of God's existence and experiencing confirmation daily in meditation.

As I came to realize that some manner of spiritual template must be built-in to the DNA of the brain . . . (as I pursued the "spiritual fossil record") . . . I began to try to use the recurrent themes and memes in that wealth of human spiritual recordings for clues. Eventually . . . it hit me in a dream sequence that stuck with me. It concerned raising children and the purpose of educating them (at the time I was experiencing frustration with the quality of student being produced by the feeder schools to my university . . . obviously the stimulus for the dream).

I found myself in various circumstances repeatedly trying to tell various people that it is important that children be encouraged to think for themselves (NOT be forced to memorize rote facts and procedures fed to them by their teachers). I remember pleading with the various people in my dream (who knows who they actually represented in real life) and emphasizing that they MUST be able to understand and figure things out for themselves or they won't be able to function as successfully as adults.

Ding, ding, ding . . . If we truly are "children" of God then we are supposed to develop smilar self-reliant capabilities as adults. It is unlikely that God had any teacher or any other source for knowledge. . . so I doubt God would expect us to be THAT self-reliant . . . hence the "inspirations" . . . but NOT clear direct instructions and declarative and definitive answers to the questions that life inevitably poses. It passed my smell test . . . It may or may not pass yours.
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