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If you had enough intelligence to speak in depth instead of simply insulting me at a 1st grade level, maybe you would find that there is logic to it? Give it a try.....
I didn't insult you. Don't speak about intelligence when you obviously can't tell what an insult is. And no, there is no logic in your arguments.
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Originally Posted by FunkyMonk
As I look around these forums, I can't help but notice people pleading for evidence of God's existence. God does not NEED to prove himself. Someone please show me, in the Bible, where it says GOD MUST PROVE HIMSELF.
That's all well and good. Why don't you explain to me then how we should believe in something that lacks evidence. For the record, the whole "Look around you. Life is so complex. There had to be a creator!" spiel is tired and played out, so don't even try resorting to that. It proves nothing besides the fact that there are complex organisms. Jumping from that to making a direct connection with some imaginary sky-daddy is flawed logic.
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Originally Posted by FunkyMonk
He does not need to. Why SHOULD God prove himself? Even if He DID, the disbelievers would still be...disbelievers
Concrete proof is undeniable. If there was concrete proof of a god, there would be no nonbelievers. Note the word concrete.
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Originally Posted by FunkyMonk
- just like those that don't believe we landed on the moon to THIS DATE, they wouldn't believe in God if he appeared before them.
A statement like that speak for itself.
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Originally Posted by FunkyMonk
As far as I am concerned, look at your hands, feet, your child. Look at the trees, the sky, the sunset. Drink water, breathe air. That is good enough proof to me that we were created on a planet that we can live on.
That is not "proof". It's a conclusion you come to through faulty logic. Complexity doesn't prove anything besides the fact complexity exists. Once you try to make a connection between two things (in this case, life and a "god") without concrete evidence to link them, you are completely going against logic.
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Originally Posted by FunkyMonk
However, God needs no REASON to prove Himself to anyone. It is your choice to find Him, not for Him to find you.
Right, so according to you, you can find something that isn't proven to exist? Surely, you don't need me to point out how illogical that is.
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Originally Posted by FunkyMonk
What if God does prove itself to us, but we cannot understand it?
Then it isn't proof.
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Originally Posted by FunkyMonk
Maybe God is proving itself to us in a very sophisticated, subtle manner, so that only the wisest and most evolved of us will see this "proof".
1. Concrete evidence can be seen by anybody. To say that something is only visible to handful of people means that it is not proof. More along the lines of a conclusion somebody came to based on their own (flawed) perception of things.
2. You can't prove what you're saying.
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Originally Posted by FunkyMonk
Or maybe the proof of God is in the astral plane, and the average Joe can't get there to find it?
See previous statement.
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Originally Posted by FunkyMonk
You all seem to be thinking that God should appear in the sky and yell "This is God here! I exist!" It's kind of a stupid thing to think would happen.
I'd bet any amount of money that you can't give me a logical reason that this statement is true. It is your personal opinion and nothing more.
The question is phrased: 'does God need to prove Himself to anyone?' Well can he go ahead and not prove himself? Or perhaps He just exists without our faith because that's what makes him real to our virtues at need.
I'd rephrase the question as Spinoza could 'does God not have to prove Himself?' Then it is His existence that makes sense because of that anyone's faith.
God, for all the proving facts from Himself I think (and often believe) could only exist to the Soul, not to the Ego.
Dinosaurs in the bible, plenty of times, please enlighten us. Oh wait you mean Job the Behemoth and the Leviathan - Hippo and Crocodile. Look it up in the concordance.
Answers in Genesis is a fairy tale site for adults that never grew up.
If I forget one, I'm truly sorry..the word dinosaur was not "inveted" till 1841. The King James Bible was translated in 1611. So the word "dinosaur" does not exist in the Bible, but references are made - such as Behemoth, Tannin, etc.
The Bible also says all land animals (beast of the field) were created on Day 6.
Last edited by slashsdfz; 04-15-2009 at 12:20 PM..
If I forget one, I'm truly sorry..the word dinosaur was not "inveted" till 1841. The King James Bible was translated in 1611. So the word "dinosaur" does not exist in the Bible, but references are made - such as Behemoth, Tannin, etc.
The Bible also says all land animals (beast of the field) were created on Day 6.
This is a hippo and a crocodile. No dinosaurs - sorry.
I didn't insult you. Don't speak about intelligence when you obviously can't tell what an insult is. And no, there is no logic in your arguments.
That's all well and good. Why don't you explain to me then how we should believe in something that lacks evidence. For the record, the whole "Look around you. Life is so complex. There had to be a creator!" spiel is tired and played out, so don't even try resorting to that. It proves nothing besides the fact that there are complex organisms. Jumping from that to making a direct connection with some imaginary sky-daddy is flawed logic.
Concrete proof is undeniable. If there was concrete proof of a god, there would be no nonbelievers. Note the word concrete.
A statement like that speak for itself.
That is not "proof". It's a conclusion you come to through faulty logic. Complexity doesn't prove anything besides the fact complexity exists. Once you try to make a connection between two things (in this case, life and a "god") without concrete evidence to link them, you are completely going against logic.
Right, so according to you, you can find something that isn't proven to exist? Surely, you don't need me to point out how illogical that is.
Then it isn't proof.
1. Concrete evidence can be seen by anybody. To say that something is only visible to handful of people means that it is not proof. More along the lines of a conclusion somebody came to based on their own (flawed) perception of things.
2. You can't prove what you're saying.
See previous statement.
I'd bet any amount of money that you can't give me a logical reason that this statement is true. It is your personal opinion and nothing more.
I'd suggest you study logical reasoning.
Why did you misquote me here?!
Only a few of these quotes are mine. You are a strange person, you are trying to prove something and "win" an arguement here.
god created the big chemistry set for us humans to tinker with!!!and we are shurley tinkering.. poof were all gone.
Thus proving Evolution, because we surely are not any sort of "absolute" being. We're just some chimps en-route to being even better than we are. And physiologists have proven that certain of our physical characteristics, measurable ones like jaw length, braincase volume, etc., ARE changing over time and with DNA adaptions.
If we were created in Gawd's image, surely we'd have some sense of fellowship for our brethern, some "altruism" gene. But no. Nope.
We are, in fact, likely doomed, and possibly even within the next 50 years or so, given the longevity of post-hydrogen blast radioactive isotopes with their DNA-cracking ionizing radiation. No chance happy mutations, those; sorta like hoping to improve your 2008 Camry by smashing it at 75 mph into a solid wall.
So, we can (1) all assume we'll be saved by the all-powerful Creator, arriving in a golden-toned ship, inviting all the true believers on board. And we can also laugh at the silly non-believers here who don't buy into that fantasy.
Notice, though, that we evil non-believers also aren't wasting our time assuming we'll be saved, or that some judgmental super-being is looking over everyone's shoulder simultaneously, with equal interest and devotion to our problems, making notes on the "goodness" of our behavior. But also, he's looking simultaneously at the problems with that tiny sub-atomic particle in a tiny piece of volcanic rock exactly 2056.4678934827 meters down from the tip of Mt. Everest, the one that's about to lose it and go nuclear... Not to mention all the sub-atomic particles in the entire universe. Simultaneously. wow! Now that's omnipotent!
It boggles the mind that anyone could actually believe this stuff with all their heart, while simultaneously refusing to even look at the links that we consistently provide where the proofs, the evdience and the right conclusions are presented and reached.
So, if your god truly loves me, he'd better show himself to me, "concretely". Else, he certainly can't reasonably expect the skeptic He created (me) to listen up!
The problem with this is that it is using flawed logic. Most people find it rational to not believe in the graveyard gods because there is no evidence for them. Why should Yahweh be any different. God can't be exempt from reason just because it's the only way a believer can prove they exist. If you want to prove the truth that a god exists, then evidence is required to prove that god exists. For those who will say that nature is god to atheists/agnostics, they are wrong and basing their beliefs on value judgements, not facts.
It seems like if he is so interested in having people worship him, he would first need to prove he exist.
Besides, it's a little immoral to torture people for eternity for not believing in you, when you don't give sufficient evidence for a reasonable man to conclude that you even exist.
Truth is facts based on evidence and logic is using critical thinking to form beliefs/claims on what can be empirically observed. Evolution would be something considered to be objectively true(irregardless of whether or not someone believes it was guided by a higher power).
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Logically, I'd say.....
