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well i don't know about you but asking for signs has worked for me!!!!! and like i said before i don't follow any particular religion.... and as for faith i have all the faith i need in my own head..... and reading some ancient scripture from some supposedly holy book will get you no where but closer to the devil himself... you know that that devil works in mysterious ways through old books.... if you are a christian and some of your friends convert to the islamic qu'ran than that would mean that they are following the words of the devil.. and vice versa........there's a lot of devil power going around!!!!! and he can't trick me through some old books i go right to the sourse to god nimself.and each time i recieve a sign it brings me a little closer to the creator..
But the thing is even though you have recieved signs from God, atheists or others say that's no proof from God. And some even say that because they didn't see it, it's no proof at all.
Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 04-22-2009 at 11:27 AM..
You are creating your belief and stating it as fact, due to all of your "research" that you will not get specific about even as you cite it.
As for reasoning with someone with a different point of view, you don't even attempt it. You preach at it and claim not to be doing so. Another case of basic misinformation being provided by you.
BTW, you didn't answer the question, just went off on a tangent....again.
As for going "into left field", I would never! That is your domain.
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As for reasoning with someone with a different point of view, you don't even attempt it. You preach at it and claim not to be doing so. Another case of basic misinformation being provided by you.
Just like I said before, I don't preach, and I have yet to see your proof of what you say that I do.
Well, as for my research, I have actually studied the Hebrew and Greek bible. I am taking up the language so I can one day read the bible for my self, but for now I'm having to sit and listen while the priest reads it for me and people who better know the language in America, outside of where the bible was written.
My research comes from more than looking on line and just posting a site. I have actually had the opportunity to walk through Israel, if you read my post on studying other languages then you will understand where I'm coming from.
My research is sitting down with a Jewish preist and going through the bible and learning from a different point of view, not as I know it from the english point of view. Of course I don't have the time to actually hear Him read the entire bible. But in America their are Jewish teachers there also.
I have actually walked through the tomb of what they said to belong to Jesus. I have actually been of what is called the Jesus trial, looked at what was said to be Peter's house, saw what is said to be Tabitha's tomb. But once again you would say this is not proof, since you don't believe in the bible. I have even watched while some was baptized in the Jordan river.
So, when you actually get on a plain, and come into this land and see this for yourself, then you really have know right to say that it does not exist.
I really don't care if you say that this still does not prove anything, but it is proof for me.
If you like, you can go onto my church website and see the pictures and web video of my church trip when we went to Jerusalem in 2007, and I will have pictures of this years experience of 2009. http://www.newbirthholyland.com/video_jerusalem.htm
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You are creating your belief and stating it as fact, due to all of your "research" that you will not get specific about even as you cite it.
There is really nothing to get specific about because atheists don't believe in the bible, so if you don't believe in the bible, what is my trip to jerusalem to you. And you are right, I am stating my belief as fact of what I have seen.
Where have you been to prove that the bible is not real, have you traveled to other parts of the country to prove what you say that you believe is a lie? When you provide that, then you can argue, until then, you are doing nothing but blowing hot air as others have done.
Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 04-22-2009 at 12:11 PM..
Just like I said before, I don't preach, and I have yet to see your proof of what you say that I do.
Well, as for my research, I have actually studied the Hebrew and Greek bible. I am taking up the language so I can one day read the bible for my self, but for now I'm having to sit and listen while the priest reads it for me and people who better know the language in America, outside of where the bible was written.
My research comes from more than looking on line and just posting a site. I have actually had the opportunity to walk through Israel, if you read my post on studying other languages then you will understand where I'm coming from.
My research is sitting down with a Jewish preist and going through the bible and learning from a different point of view, not as I know it from the english point of view. Of course I don't have the time to actually hear Him read the entire bible. But in America their are Jewish teachers there also.
I have actually walked through the tomb of what they said to belong to Jesus. I have actually been of what is called the Jesus trial, looked at what was said to be Peter's house, saw what is said to be Tabitha's tomb. But once again you would say this is not proof, since you don't believe in the bible. I have even watched while some was baptized in the Jordan river.
So, when you actually get on a plain, and come into this land and see this for yourself, then you really have know right to say that it does not exist.
I really don't care if you say that this still does not prove anything, but it is proof for me.
If you like, you can go onto my church website and see the pictures and web video of my church trip when we went to Jerusalem in 2007, and I will have pictures of this years experience of 2009.
2007 Jerusalem (http://www.newbirthholyland.com/video_jerusalem.htm - broken link)
There is really nothing to get specific about because atheists don't believe in the bible, so if you don't believe in the bible, what is my trip to jerusalem to you. And you are right, I am stating my belief as fact of what I have seen.
Where have you been to prove that the bible is not real, have you traveled to other parts of the country to prove what you say that you believe is a lie? When you provide that, then you can argue, until then, you are doing nothing but blowing hot air as others have done.
In other words, you are doing exactly that which you will not accept from others as research, but claiming that because you did it, it is valid. See a little flaw in the logic there?
BTW, you should really be careful about assumptions of challenging the credentials of someone who you know nothing about. You think you do, but as in so many other things you have no clue.
Shawn, I checked your link and the 2007 trip was nothing more than a 7 day tour, Nothing to do with research or study at all, and I was not even able to find one for 2008 or 2009...Me thinks you trying to pull the wool over our eyes?
Shawn, I checked your link and the 2007 trip was nothing more than a 7 day tour, Nothing to do with research or study at all, and I was not even able to find one for 2008 or 2009...Me thinks you trying to pull the wool over our eyes?
Yes, you are right my trip in 2007 had nothing to do with research, that is why I came back. But while I was there I had enough time to look at what I needed to give to my school to bring back to them, so they would allow me to come back on them paying for the trip.
I'm actually in an exchange program, that is how it is possible for me to actually go to various parts of the world at the schools expense.
In case you did not notice my minor is studying religion, while my major is psychology. I take more pride in my minor and actually was given the opportunity to travel. of course while you are Jerusalem you would want to go and see if what is in the bible is real.
So, if someone want to research and prove or not prove if the bible is real. My opinion is you have to go outside of the bible and see if you can actually find what is in there. Until you do that you really can't just say that the bible is not true.
Let's just look at certain scripture. Jesus died in a tomb, and rose, of course He want be there, but what you can do is, see if there is a tomb?
Jesus spent much of His time in the Mount of Olives. So what the person would need to do is see if they can actually find this place called Mount of Olives and go from there?It says that Jesus often went to the Mount of Olives. I found that place but Jesus wasn't there of course. So, if you want to find certain places that are in the bible you have to actually go to the place.
Answer me this, have you actually been to this place to try to disprove the bible and the events in it. I'm not attacking what you call research, but I also do the same, but that doesn't really prove anything. You have to actually go to where you can find that information.
Paul is a character in the bible. So would you be able to find Paul in Jerusalem today, of course not. But you would try to find anything pertaining to him. Finding was is said to be his house, does not necessarily prove that the bible is real, but it is more than what people have that are trying to say that the bible is not real.
Jesus and others was baptized in the Jordan river. Of course you can't find those people and interview them. But what you would have to do in my opinion, is actually find the Jordan river, which I have and have seen some being baptized in the river.
Who are you to say that those things are not real, have you traveled to Israel to try to prove that the actual things in the bible are false? Have you ever been to the Temple Mount?
You question if Jesus is God, or if He exist. But have you even traveled to the place called the Chruch Of the Holy Sepulcher to see if it is all a lie.
I don't claim to be perfect or a scholar, but I have seen probably more than some have seen who are trying to prove the bible to be wrong.
Like I said before if you want to do opinion for opinion we can do that, but if you want to do research for research than we can do what also.
But my question, can you prove that these place in Israel are not real, and how else will you prove the bible wrong, until you come to the place and actually see for yourself.
The reason you haven't found anything for 2009 is because I haven't posted anything yet for this year. I never said about me going in 2008.
I mean the reality is people want to see things with their eyes right. So is the Mount of Olives real, Jesus tomb, Pauls house, various wells that have been found, Church of all Nations, and other places that are in the bible? HOw will you know until you actually see for yourself? You have even said what proof, go and see the proof for yourself and then determine. Until then you are just really beating the air with your assumptions. YOu want physical proof, then why are you not trying to actually take a trip to Israel to see for yourself. I mean you will only believe it, if you see it for yourself, until then, I can post a picture, but once again you will say that is not proof. Typical of people who haven't actually put the time or the effort in really disproving anything. There is more than just looking at sites and reading what someone wrote. Take the trip and actually learn something.
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Me thinks you trying to pull the wool over our eyes?
Oh no wool, you just found someone who have actually done more than you actually traveling to see what is real or not. NO wool, this is just a person willing to debate with someone and actually call them at their bluff. You said you had research, but you have not provided anything but a site and someone elses opinion. Can you not provide more than that?
I have seen certain things in the bible and have actually looked for actual places to see and try to determine for myself. I get the feeling you are seeing that their are people in the world that take this type of stuff serious and actually have the opportunity to travel and see other things besides america. It must hurt to debate with someone who have seen a place that is in the bible, and you actually can't saw that you have.
LIke I said I call your bluff bluff bluff, don't take it personal.
Sanspeur we are going to have to finish this conversation later, it's late and i'm tired. I knew you would pop back up, but you didn't pop up with anything important.
Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 04-22-2009 at 03:14 PM..
In other words, you are doing exactly that which you will not accept from others as research, but claiming that because you did it, it is valid. See a little flaw in the logic there?
BTW, you should really be careful about assumptions of challenging the credentials of someone who you know nothing about. You think you do, but as in so many other things you have no clue.
Know I'm claiming what I did and what I saw is evidence for me, I'm not really concerned with it being evidence for anyone else.
Well, please give me a clue to why you think that the bible is wrong. I mean most atheists want facts and clues, and proof. What proof do you have, have you actually been outside of this country and put forth the effort to look and disprove the bible?
So, you say that I have no clue, then please tell me. I'm only challenging what the person says that they have, not the person.
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,621 posts, read 12,729,004 times
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Originally Posted by shawn_2828
But the thing is even though you have recieved signs from God, atheists or others say that's no proof from God. And some even say that because they didn't see it, it's no proof at all.
what i mean is when i ask the creator for a sign i'm asking for a sign that science can't explain... and every time i see something that science can't explain it brings me closer to being 100% proof positive that a creator exist. i realy don't care about what other people think whether i saw a sign from the creator or not!!! i asked for the signs from the creator and i've recieved....but i'm not 100% sure that they are from the creator..... it could be from the devil the other creator of evil.....there's alot of evil on this planet some you can outright see and some you can't. so untill i see 100% proof positive that the good creator gave me the signs i will be in limbo..
Last edited by cruxan; 04-22-2009 at 03:42 PM..
Reason: addl letter
Sanspeur, You know what I take that back, my trip in 2007 can be seen as a form of research because I actually looked at what was in the bible and actually went and tried to see if I could find those places.
If you call what you have done research, which was nothing but a site and calling that your research, then I can say the same.
But unlike you I have ventured to another country, and the place where it is said that Jesus was crusified. That is more than you have.
So, once again try again with your empty arguments and words that you haven't even tried to see if they were actually right. This conversation is a joke.
Have you even took anything from the site that you read and went out to see if they were true. Have you taken any of that information and actually tried to see if the places where there that are in the bible?
What gets me is people like you who talk alot of junk and nothing to back it up with. Oh yea you give a site and then say what I actually saw was nothing of actual proof. You really should stop with the oh how can you prove this, and that, and prove me wrong.
You have never been to Israel, so how can you prove anything to be a lie. Because you read something, please, that means nothing, and you can't even try to discredit what I saw, over you seeing nothing.
When ever you travel to another land and actually take your bible and actually walk and see if what is in it is false, then you have nothing.
This conversation was pointless and clueless, a waste of my time.
You come here and question about how do they know that the bible is actually real, which is a good question? I say that I have seen with my eyes of things that are in the bible. So, if you say that the bible is not real, then the places wouldn't be real right?
You lost your faith, which is to bad, but did you really do everything that you could to do this so called research that you claim.
Like I said I consider research, when you actually go out and find what is real or not real, by actually going and trying to collect data, meaning finding what can be seen with the eye.
Now I ask you again what proof do you have? I can also study scholars and have went through and read their information that was provided, but what is that do you? Like you I can also provide sites of people that I have read up on, but what type of evidence is that? Nothing from my knowledge.
I actually gained more in my faith because I actually went outside of the bible and outside of sites, and outside of reading other people's information, I advise you to do the same and give what you find.
Like before I will continue to give you a headache if you persist on debating without any real information to stand on. There is nothing wrong with debating, but don't come here with this attitude that you have went outside of every possibility to prove that the bible does not exist. I haven't even went to the limit on trying to find more information.
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I have provided research
If reading from sites and book and providing sites is your research, then what I have done can be just as valid as what you did. I have read books and read up on schalors, but I have actually also had the opportunity to, I say once again, take my bible and actually see if I could find what was in it to be true? How much of that have you done?
Have you studied the 4 types of scholars that even deal with the bible?
ohhhhhhhhh, but if it makes you feel better I can post sites just like you.
I'm sure that you will say that these sites proves nothing, but this is exactly what you provided as your so called research. So, lets get real if you don't want to call this research, which it can be if you actually took the time to read and validate the information.
Sites don't mean anything unless you actually go out and see if what they are saying is correct or not. But lets face it, who has the time to do that with every site.
So, if you want to get technical what you provided is not evidence, and what I provided even though it is in the bible, some say that it is still not evidence. I'm saying that what I provided and what I say, is in the bible. I sure you can aleast see that. THat is my proof to me.
So, if the bible is not correct, how could I have seen such places if the bible does not exist? I mean if the bible is not real, then the places in Isreal would not be real either, right. So, if you have a real place called The Mount of Olives and it shows up in the bible, how could that be?
It's kind of odd that it would show up in the bible and then be in a real place, for the bible to be fake!
So, what you are saying does not make much since. But you are right you have every right to believe what you believe, but don't come here with your nothing and trying to make it out of something.
god****destroyed***the first earth***he totally flooded it, he whole thing****it states in the bible that god has given us a rainbow, and whenever you see one, it is a reminder of Gods promise that he would never flood the entire earth again**
If you say so...
But if I asked you if you could move a mountain by prayer or faith, you might say yes. But as soon as I asked you to move the mountain by prayer or faith, you will tell me you can't for one excuse or another.
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.......there's a lot of devil power going around!!!!! and he can't trick me through some old books i go right to the sourse to god nimself.and each time i recieve a sign it brings me a little closer to the creator..
