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So you are here to snipe snide "you are just wrong.... because just because" style messages from the side lines. I see. Perhaps you have missed the point of a discussion forum. You said some of my facts were wrong. You are either able to correct them, or you are not.
I am referring to your reply to my post. I did not invite or request such a reply. You chose yourself to give it. And in that reply you suggested there was a failure in some of my facts somewhere. I am all ears to here what they are or where if you wish to elaborate or at least adumbrate the nature of the failures.
But simple sniping "You are wrong just because" and then retreating is perhaps to miss the point of what a discussion forum is.
Everything I said above was fact. We can very much reproduce the experiences of OBE artificially. In it's entirely using drugs, physics, or extreme meditation, or aspects of it such as in the experiment I linked to with the alien hand syndrome. And we have learned MUCH from these things as to how the brain works, how it maintains a body map and a location map, and what happens when these two things go out of sync.
It is also fact that no one appears to have presented any substantiation of any kind validating the claim that anyone actually has left their body during OBE in any real sense. And quite a few decent studies have been done on the matter. I would refer you to Sam Parnia as the obvious first go to guy, who appears quite capable of setting up a controlled study, yet is quite biased towards a positive result..... but despite his bias has failed to find a single one.
The thread is indeed primarily about whether people have had such experiences. And the answer is many have, many CAN have them artificially and there is no reason to nearly die to have one, and the simple experiment in the link I provided is a great starting place which I recommend to anyone to get some insight as to what it feels like. It truly is remarkable to do that experiment, to be looking at an arm and hand you know intellectually is not yours, but to have your own brain try to convince you otherwise.
It is a genuinely moving, perplexing and astonishing experiment which can be done really simply and quickly and I recommend it to everyone.
Thinking about my experience, now, something strikes me as a bit odd. I am "mentally blind" ... in other words, where some people can close their eyes and "see" things with their mind's eye, I cannot nor have I ever been able to. So, how is it that my mind was able to see my face so clearly, and then see the scene from another vantage point other than where I was physically? Seems like I wouldn't have been able to do that, based on my inability to visualize.
That strikes me as a truly awful way to validate an anecdote.
I'm not sure what you mean by awful, an awful experience for him to go through;
or awful in the way I described it, or awful in terms of it not being valid
hearing something 2nd or 3rd or 8th hand from someone I may not even know, is very different from hearing it first hand from the person describing their own experience, because you can gauge their credibility
Thinking about my experience, now, something strikes me as a bit odd. I am "mentally blind" ... in other words, where some people can close their eyes and "see" things with their mind's eye, I cannot nor have I ever been able to. So, how is it that my mind was able to see my face so clearly, and then see the scene from another vantage point other than where I was physically? Seems like I wouldn't have been able to do that, based on my inability to visualize.
excellent excellent excellent give this person a gold star
I too am someone who is "not visual" at all in my "thinking." I agree with your observation that this validates your "being there" and not just imagining it or making it up.
excellent excellent excellent give this person a gold star
I too am someone who is "not visual" at all in my "thinking." I agree with your observation that this validates your "being there" and not just imagining it or making it up.
Nobody is suggesting that OBE's are imaginary or that people are making it up. Quite the contrary. Did you watch the video Nozz posted? Those folks really had the experience that the plastic hand was their own hand.
Nobody is suggesting that OBE's are imaginary or that people are making it up. Quite the contrary. Did you watch the video Nozz posted? Those folks really had the experience that the plastic hand was their own hand.
I did not just have physical sensations like the people in that experiement, however. I saw myself and the scene. That was my point. I think Taz was saying "imagining/making it up" in reference to my mind doing that. If my mind was, essentially, tricking me with a visual "illusion", how was it able to do that when I am "mentally blind"?
I'm not saying that it validates that some part of me actually left my body, but it does give me pause.
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