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What kind of person am I? Speak please. And as for babies in hell, of course you don't know any; its fallen out of fashion, just like you won't find many Christians now who support slavery. I should've been more clear in my previous post though; I should've said that Christians don't all believe in the so-called "age of accountability" doctrine.
Speak? Sounds like you're giving an order to a dog...
I just meant it shows you look for the bad things in life when thinking of God, whereas others may look at the flowers, trees, sunshine, rain, babies, laughter, etc.
It's fallen out of fashion? Who actually believes or ever did believe that babies who died would burn in hell for all eternity? I think even Catholics that believe that babies are born with the sin of Adam believe that babies would go to purgatory, not hell. I could be totally off on that though.
As for slavery, that was talked about in the OT, but no where do I read in the OT or NT that babies will go to hell.
As for age of accountability, I'd agree on the most part. I still don't know that anyone could say that a baby/young child who died would go to hell.
If I'm wrong, I'd really love for you to show me who believes a baby would go to hell for eternity. (Just for the record, I don't even know that I believe in an eternal hell).
I just meant it shows you look for the bad things in life when thinking of God, whereas others may look at the flowers, trees, sunshine, rain, babies, laughter, etc.
Actually I was replying to ILNC who said that "creation" testifies to the existence of a creator.
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It's fallen out of fashion? Who actually believes or ever did believe that babies who died would burn in hell for all eternity? I think even Catholics that believe that babies are born with the sin of Adam believe that babies would go to purgatory, not hell. I could be totally off on that though.
"Reprobate infants are vipers of vengeance, which Jehovah will hold over hell, in the
tongs of his wrath, till they turn and spit venom in his face!"- Jonathan Edwards
Why, then, do almost all seem to oppose frightening children with hell? The answer is obvious: they wrongly fancy that children are not in danger of hell. Can you imagine that a mother who would give her own life to save her child’s wouldn’t do everything to save her child from hell if she knew there was any danger?
There are three imagined reasons for supposing that children are in no danger of hell. Some think children are innocent of sin and guilt. Some admit that they are not innocent, but are saved from sin by being born again in infant baptism. Some fancy that though little sinners, not regenerated in baptism, children are, nonetheless, safe in the covenant of grace.
Infants are not innocent, but born in guilt and sin. Paul says we were all born dead in trespasses and sins, Eph.2:1. In Adam, in whom children are born, all died, Rom. 5:12. Only “in Christ (in whom all need to be reborn), are all made alive.”(1 Cor. 15:22) So until children are born again, they are in imminent peril of eternal damnation and should be made aware of it as soon as possible.- John Gerstner
"Little child, if you go to hell there will be a devil at your side to strike you. He will go on striking you every minute for ever and ever without stopping. The first stroke will make your body as bad as the body of Job, covered, from head to foot, with sores and ulcers. The second stroke will make your body twice as bad as the body of Job. The third stroke will make your body three times as bad as the body of Job. The fourth stroke will make your body four times as bad as the body of Job. How, then, will your body be after the devil has been striking it every moment for a hundred million of years without stopping? Perhaps at this moment, seven o'clock in he evening, a child is just going into hell. To morrow evening, at seven o'clock, go and knock at the gates of hell and ask what the child is doing. The devils will go and look. They will come back again and say, the child is burning. Go in week and ask what the child is doing; you will get the same answer, it is burning; Go in a year and asks the same answer comes it is burning. Go in a million of years and ask the same question, the answer is just the same--it is burning. So, if you go for ever and ever, you will always get the same answer--it is burning in the fire.”--- Rev. J. Furniss
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As for slavery, that was talked about in the OT, but no where do I read in the OT or NT that babies will go to hell.
I'm not arguing that babies go to hell; that's an argument that Christians have by disagreeing on the so-called "age of accountability" doctrine. As Tony Warren puts it: The fifth problem of the doctrine of "age of accountability," is this idea that all babies are Saved. If that were indeed the case (which of course it isn't) then All grown people would be Saved, because there is no loss of everlasting Life once one gets it (else it is Salvation based on continued merit). You see, this is the impossibility of this doctrine and how it is incompatible with eternal security or being sealed unto the day of redemption by the Spirit. If all babies were Saved, then when they grow up, they are still Saved, which means there are no unsaved people in the entire world since all were once babies. Did God give these babies the everlasting waters of Salvation that He says we'll never thirst again, and then they reach the age of 12, and all of a sudden it's all just a lie and they thirst again because they are now not Saved? That's the ridiculousness of this doctrine, and the twisted logic of this plan. And if you think that is ridiculous, if all babies are redeemed, that means they become unredeemed, and then some become redeemed again later on in life. Like Alice in wonderland, it just keeps getting curious-er and curious-er.
Last edited by nightflight; 05-01-2009 at 09:00 AM..
Actually I was replying to ILNC who said that "creation" testifies to the existence of a creator.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
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Jonathan Edwards; John Gerstner; Rev. J. Furniss
I do not know who these men are, or what denomination they represent, but I disagree with them wholeheartedly.
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I'm not arguing that babies go to hell; that's an argument that Christians have by disagreeing on the so-called "age of accountability" doctrine. As Tony Warren puts it: The fifth problem of the doctrine of "age of accountability," is this idea that all babies are Saved. If that were indeed the case (which of course it isn't) then All grown people would be Saved, because there is no loss of everlasting Life once one gets it (else it is Salvation based on continued merit). You see, this is the impossibility of this doctrine and how it is incompatible with eternal security or being sealed unto the day of redemption by the Spirit. If all babies were Saved, then when they grow up, they are still Saved, which means there are no unsaved people in the entire world since all were once babies. Did God give these babies the everlasting waters of Salvation that He says we'll never thirst again, and then they reach the age of 12, and all of a sudden it's all just a lie and they thirst again because they are now not Saved? That's the ridiculousness of this doctrine, and the twisted logic of this plan. And if you think that is ridiculous, if all babies are redeemed, that means they become unredeemed, and then some become redeemed again later on in life. Like Alice in wonderland, it just keeps getting curious-er and curious-er.
Actually, this guy never says babies go to hell, from what I read, he is saying they are saved by grace, just like we all are.
I think I'll start a poll and ask this question about babies. Could be interesting!
I do not know who these men are, or what denomination they represent, but I disagree with them wholeheartedly.
Actually, this guy never says babies go to hell, from what I read, he is saying they are saved by grace, just like we all are.
I think I'll start a poll and ask this question about babies. Could be interesting!
This guy is criticizing the "age of accountability" doctrine, which by the way is only wishful thinking of the Christian apologetics. There is no "age of accountability" anywhere in the bible. He states clearly that there is a problem with the idea that all babies are saved. According to the Christians we are not saved by grace but must make a conscious decision to accept Jesus as the savior. In Psalm 51:5 David wrote, "I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me." David clearly states we are born into sin. John 14:6 records what Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me." Jesus did not make an exception for infants. The New Testament is clear that we are born into sin and will go to hell unless we accept Jesus, infants included. Christians can't have their cake and eat it too, either you believe the bible or you don't. There are no exceptions for babies that are not saved, not if you believe in the New Testament. The bible is full of beautiful parables that one can use in life, but to take the bible as literal truth is absurd, IMO of course.
This guy is criticizing the "age of accountability" doctrine, which by the way is only wishful thinking of the Christian apologetics. There is no "age of accountability" anywhere in the bible. He states clearly that there is a problem with the idea that all babies are saved. According to the Christians we are not saved by grace but must make a conscious decision to accept Jesus as the savior. In Psalm 51:5 David wrote, "I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me." David clearly states we are born into sin. John 14:6 records what Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me." Jesus did not make an exception for infants. The New Testament is clear that we are born into sin and will go to hell unless we accept Jesus, infants included. Christians can't have their cake and eat it too, either you believe the bible or you don't. There are no exceptions for babies that are not saved, not if you believe in the New Testament. The bible is full of beautiful parables that one can use in life, but to take the bible as literal truth is absurd, IMO of course.
The religious ability to believe arbitrarily, really is the same ability that allows them to believe in the first place.
There is no Hell, Tarturis, Hades, or whatever. That's a human conception to make people fear not following what the church says your supposed to do.
In 1973 I had an encounter with two demons. Their names were Abjar, and Altra. Science will tell us demons don't exist, just like some will say Hell does not exist. Yet the demons I encountered feared Hell, and one expressed that fear. When he stated. "I would rather be destroyed then to burn in Hell."
What happened to me back in 1973, had little to do with a human conception, it was an event that exposed me to a spiritual truth that few encounter.
In 1973 I had an encounter with two demons. Their names were Abjar, and Altra. Science will tell us demons don't exist, just like some will say Hell does not exist. Yet the demons I encountered feared Hell, and one expressed that fear. When he stated. "I would rather be destroyed then to burn in Hell."
What happened to me back in 1973, had little to do with a human conception, it was an event that exposed me to a spiritual truth that few encounter.
I'll give you 10,000,000 guesses and they all end in 34.
If you *cough* Google *cough* these two names it'll become clear in a matter of seconds.
is this begging for a comment, i mean an extra rep?
amazing! ROFL.
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