So you're anti-gay...because your church says you should be? (Egyptian, gospel)

[kdbrich]

Originally Posted by aquila

How'd that experiment go, kdbrich? You know the one I'm talking about...where I dared you to try and repress your innermost feelings and attractions? What'd you think?

Actually, the Bible is NOT clear that homosexuality is immoral. You just choose to think it is.

I'm sorry--I'm not sure what you're referring to about an "experiment".

Say what you want, but the Bible clearly defines marriage as male/female....and clearly condemns homosexual behavior. If you want to deny it...I don't much care.

I don't hate gay people...I just agree with the Bible that homosexual activity is immoral. I'm not advocating mistreatment of anyone who is gay.

[aquila]

Originally Posted by Jaymax

"Yapping away". I like it.

I'm reminded of a little chihuahua that lives on the next street over from me, and he keeps barking at me whenever he sees me out for a walk. Aggressive little fart, really. He'll run toward me "Grrr...brr ruh ruh ruh ruh ruh ruh"...and even "chase after me" as I ignore him to continue walking...but he never attempts to bite. He's such a wimp. All I have to do is hold up my arms and go "BOOO" and he scampers away. At times I'll just stand there and watch him as he yaps away at me. Sometimes he'll ease up while he looks around to see if anyone else will come to his aid. Then he starts right back up. I just stare at him some more, until he finally feels as though he's made his point. Then I carry on with my walk.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

I tried the "I" function for awhile but you can still read the posts when they are quoted by others, so I turned it off again and just generally skip over the more aggressively insulting "yappings".

Yeah, the "View post" option, as well as being able to see when someone else has quoted them, does kinda defeat the whole purpose of having that ability.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

It's ironic that the 1 Cor 6:9 verse used to be translated to condemn masturbators, not homosexuals. But that wasn't accurate either- just popular during a certain time period.

For real. It's like "What definition do we want it to have this century?" How is it that fundies don't see that they keep changing the word of God, yet continue to say it's inerrant?

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by aquila

I'm reminded of a little chihuahua that lives on the next street over from me, and he keeps barking at me whenever he sees me out for a walk. Aggressive little fart, really. He'll run toward me "Grrr...brr ruh ruh ruh ruh ruh ruh"...and even "chase after me" as I ignore him to continue walking...but he never attempts to bite. He's such a wimp. All I have to do is hold up my arms and go "BOOO" and he scampers away. At times I'll just stand there and watch him as he yaps away at me. Sometimes he'll ease up while he looks around to see if anyone else will come to his aid. Then he starts right back up. I just stare at him some more, until he finally feels as though he's made his point. Then I carry on with my walk.

Hah! That's great! You've painted a vivid picture in my mind. From now on, whenever I see those types of posts I'll be thinking of your story and giggling. Thank you!

Originally Posted by aquila

For real. It's like "What definition do we want it to have this century?" How is it that fundies don't see that they keep changing the word of God, yet continue to say it's inerrant?

Maybe in a 100 years it will be translated as Trekkie Worshippers and those who Bang Cyborgs?

And it will still be "inerrant" to those who need to believe it is.

[aquila]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

I'm sorry--I'm not sure what you're referring to about an "experiment".

Hmmmmm. I guess you missed my response to you in this post of a different thread.

Originally Posted by kdbrich

Say what you want, but the Bible clearly defines marriage as male/female....and clearly condemns homosexual behavior. If you want to deny it...I don't much care.

Say what you want, but the Bible clearly does NOT condemn homosexual behavior anymore than it would condemn the same behavior between a man and woman. If you want to deny it...I don't much care. Any twisting of Scripture that fundamentalists want to undertake to make it conform to their preconceived notions of the matter is a gross injustice and extremely dishonest...not to mention blind and foolhardy.

Originally Posted by kdbrich

I don't hate gay people...I just agree with the Bible that homosexual activity is immoral. I'm not advocating mistreatment of anyone who is gay.

Actually, yes you do advocate mistreatment of anyone who is gay when when you want to deny us the human dignity to peacefully love another human and worship God in accordance with who we are. You DO advocate mistreatment of anyone who is gay when you tell us we are not allowed to get married. "In what way", you might ask? It's like this:

The church tells gays and lesbians that any sexual expression on their part is abominable and sinful. Therefore, the sexual urges we have are to be suppressed and not acted upon, including through masturbation. The church tells us we must live a life of chastity...celibacy. So we are somehow supposed to "unite our struggle with the suffering of Christ". We are to deny the deepest, innermost attractions of our hearts and souls, as well as our yearning for love....and along with that, our sexual urges...for as difficult as that may be. But not even Paul required straight men to do that. He told them they could get married if they couldn't control themselves. You might say "You can get married to a woman", but I'll refer you to that little experiment I dared you to try...and then keep in mind that no woman would want to marry us for the sake of allowing us to "get our rocks off".

So yes, you do advocate mistreatment of gays and lesbians by the very fact that you declare we are to be superhuman and suppress the very thing that straight people are allowed to embrace.

[RobinD69]

Originally Posted by ptsum

You know this becomes a little hypocritical of you, first you ask for proof from individuals who say that they don't believe in your god and then you say you can prove that your god exists and when you are asked for that proof, you cannot provide it because you assume that nobody's going to believe you. Do you know what it means to assume something?

Yes I know, but I have offered the proof before and you see how ridiculed Christian get for any proof they offer.

Considering you are right, it does sound hypocritical I will offer a crumb. Someone please explain how stones that weight more than any crane ever invented could move are found over 25 miles from where they were quaried and raised to an elevation of between 200 and 1000 feet above sea level and positioned more precisely than any laser could aid in positioning.

Now if that is not good enough then please explain how everything looks designed even when examined to its most miniscule levels. Even the layered sediments of the entire world.

[kdbrich]

Originally Posted by aquila

Hmmmmm. I guess you missed my response to you in this post of a different thread.

I'm sorry. I get it. You feel an attraction to people of the same gender. Feelings don't change morality, though. It just doesn't.

Say what you want, but the Bible clearly does NOT condemn homosexual behavior anymore than it would condemn the same behavior between a man and woman. If you want to deny it...I don't much care. Any twisting of Scripture that fundamentalists want to undertake to make it conform to their preconceived notions of the matter is a gross injustice and extremely dishonest...not to mention blind and foolhardy.

So the stuff about not "lying with a man as you would a woman" is my imagination? Or are you going to twist it around and say it doesn't really mean that? Or anywhere else where it refers to homosexual offenders?

LOL..ok.

Actually, yes you do advocate mistreatment of anyone who is gay when when you want to deny us the human dignity to peacefully love another human and worship God in accordance with who we are. You DO advocate mistreatment of anyone who is gay when you tell us we are not allowed to get married. "In what way", you might ask? It's like this:

Gay people have the exact same rights I do when it comes to marriage. No more, no less.

The church tells gays and lesbians that any sexual expression on their part is abominable and sinful.

Any church worth its salt will teach the Bible. The Bible clearly says that it is. But as you say--you don't believe the clear verses stating it are all that clear...

Therefore, the sexual urges we have are to be suppressed and not acted upon, including through masturbation. The church tells us we must live a life of chastity...celibacy. So we are somehow supposed to "unite our struggle with the suffering of Christ". We are to deny the deepest, innermost attractions of our hearts and souls, as well as our yearning for love....and along with that, our sexual urges...for as difficult as that may be. But not even Paul required straight men to do that. He told them they could get married if they couldn't control themselves. You might say "You can get married to a woman", but I'll refer you to that little experiment I dared you to try...and then keep in mind that no woman would want to marry us for the sake of allowing us to "get our rocks off".

There are a lot of things that people like to do that are immoral. Their desires don't mean that it's suddenly ok to act on them.

So yes, you do advocate mistreatment of gays and lesbians by the very fact that you declare we are to be superhuman and suppress the very thing that straight people are allowed to embrace.

There are a lot of straight people that suppress their desires.

[ICN2U]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

I'm sorry--I'm not sure what you're referring to about an "experiment".

Say what you want, but the Bible clearly defines marriage as male/female....and clearly condemns homosexual behavior. If you want to deny it...I don't much care.

I don't hate gay people...I just agree with the Bible that homosexual activity is immoral. I'm not advocating mistreatment of anyone who is gay.

good response.

I cant rep you at this time..........

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by kdbrich

So the stuff about not "lying with a man as you would a woman" is my imagination? Or are you going to twist it around and say it doesn't really mean that? Or anywhere else where it refers to homosexual offenders?

I've seen you post many times about reading Bible verses in context. So why don't you do that when it comes to homosexuality?

Here's a few hints: Canaanites, Molech, views of women in Biblical times, ritual pagan sex worship, male temple prostitutes, Roman fertility gods, idolatry.

The fact that you use the phrase "homosexual offenders" suggests to me that you just open up a post-1946 English translation (probably NIV) and don't bother to look any further because you have no desire to.

Originally Posted by kdbrich

There are a lot of straight people that suppress their desires.

We're not talking about suppressing a desire to eat chocolate or a desire for a new car, or a desire to watch endless porn or cheat on your spouse. We're talking about the desire to have a meaningful loving relationship or marry a person you love. Would YOU be prepared to suppress your desire to be in a meaningful loving relationship or married to someone you love, or be completely celibate and alone for the whole of your life on the basis of some people's misinterpretion of verses taken out of context?

I wish you had a desire to investigate what the original texts really had to say in the context of the culture in which they were written. But perhaps you are suppressing it?

[kdbrich]

Originally Posted by Jaymax

I've seen you post many times about reading Bible verses in context. So why don't you do that when it comes to homosexuality?

Are you willing to do that?

Here's a few hints: Canaanites, Molech, views of women in Biblical times, ritual pagan sex worship, male temple prostitutes, Roman fertility gods, idolatry.

The fact that you use the phrase "homosexual offenders" tells me that you just open up a post-1946 English translation (probably NIV) and don't bother to look any further because you have no desire to.

I understand the spin you're placing on it that the homosexual sex "doesn't really" mean homosexual sex. I'm aware of the argument that the context is referring to those that were hetero but participated in homosexual acts. The text just does not support that. I'm sorry....no way to spin it.

We're not talking about suppressing a desire to eat chocolate or a desire for a new car, or a desire to watch endless porn or cheat on your spouse. We're talking about the desire to have a meaningful loving relationship or marry a person you love. Would YOU be prepared to suppress your desire to be in a meaningful loving relationship or married to someone you love, or be completely celibate and alone for the whole of your life on the basis of some people's misinterpretion of verses taken out of context?

Only recently has marriage really become about love. Really--in the grand scheme of things there are arranged marriages for reasons other than love all over the world, and from the beginning of time. I personally know many several folks that have had arranged marriages.

I'm not saying all homosexuals are pedophiles...but the question has to be asked...if the only person you were attracted to is a child, do you still have that "right" to a marriage?

I wish you had a desire to investigate what the original texts really had to say in the context of the culture in which they were written. But perhaps you are suppressing it?

Convince me. I wish you had the desire to just accept what the text said, and the way the author wrote it w/out trying to reinterpret it.

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by RobinD69

Considering you are right, it does sound hypocritical I will offer a crumb. Someone please explain how stones that weight more than any crane ever invented could move are found over 25 miles from where they were quaried and raised to an elevation of between 200 and 1000 feet above sea level and positioned more precisely than any laser could aid in positioning.

It's way off topic, but I'm curious. To what structure are you referring? What is it supposed to be proving?