Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What I'm always fascinated by is how vicious, hateful and ultra-defensive many people become when discussing homosexuality. They are angry at the recitation of any religious belief system that doesn't embrace homosexuality and resort to name-calling and using the typical slavery and "slicing off your nose" references when attempting to disclaim and denounce the Bible. Agnostics, atheists and any other unbelievers CAN'T interpret the Bible, since the Bible says these things are spiritually discerned. That's why it's so easy for them to arbitrarily list scriptural references w/o interpretation and take these scriptures out of context. Attacks by such people are expected, since the Bible says this will be so. Once Christians have imparted the Word, and a person turns a deaf ear, our obligation is complete. Christians understand that everything in the Bible can be taken literally and/or symbolically for edification and instruction, depending on the scripture. Christians can sit here all day and interpret scripture, and people who are adamantly opposed to the Bible and don't want to believe, for instance, the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, will find a way to disagree/dissent. I recommend anyone that wants to adequately learn about any concept in the Bible, begin attending a local church's Bible Class and/or service; one that that teaches the ENTIRE Bible. Further, for the same people that find it so easy to denounce Biblical concepts and principles, it's only fair to also use examples from other religious texts that don't support homosexuality, such as the Qu'ran. Since, in your minds, the Bible is invalid and/or contradictory, for these purposes, let's not focus on the Bible. Let's focus on dissecting the Qu'ran, since it also says homosexuality is a sin. How about listing scriptural references from there as well? Exactly... Regardless of what is said here, or elsewhere; how many people denounce the origin of or challenge the validity/legitimacy of the Bible, none of this will stop believers from being believers. The reality is people have the right and are going to believe what they want to believe. Science does not dictate or govern Christianity, since Christians believe and know Christianity was here since the beginning of time. For us, God created science. If gay people choose to believe it's okay to be gay, that's their truth.
Further, there are many people that wear the label of Christianity, but, however, do not believe in a variety of Biblical principles, i.e., the Trinity, Old Testament, that Jesus is God's only begotten son, or crucifixion. This lack of belief cancels out the ability to even be a Christian/believer. According to the Bible, one can't denounce the Trinity and be a Christian/believer. That's impossible. There's no such thing.
If homosexuals are comfortable and confident in being gay, then so be it. It shouldn't matter what anyone else believes; that's their business, just as it's a gay person's business that he/she is homosexual. However, if they engage in a discussion, people are going to automatically share their beliefs. For example, I'm a heterosexual; I'm confident and secure in my sexuality. Being heterosexual is not something I have to prove to anyone. It's not something I get defensive about. It's a personal choice. It is what it is. What others think about my being heterosexual is their business. I don't have to bash people because they don't agree with or support my sexuality or religious beliefs re: my sexuality.
1. Please spare us your attempts at arrogance. Anyone and everyone can certainly read and understand your scriptures perfectly. The days when only your clergy cold read them has been over for many centuries. There is no "Magical Secrete Decoder Ring" your god send through the mail to you.
2. Considering that there are over a thousand Christian sects in North America alone, attempting to say that someone who doesn't believe in the Trinity but still worships Christ isn't Christian, is simply attempting to use the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. "A belief in the life and deification of Jesus Christ, and an active worship of said deity" is an accurate, and the only, criteria neccessary.
3. People get "vicious, hateful and ultra-defensive" when discussing gays and religion, simply because it is religion that has forced the second class citizen status ON gays in the first place. You certainly have an inherent right in the United States to believe what you want to believe.
However, this Nation was built upon the ideals of Religious Freedom among our Founding Principles. Religious Freedom does not, in any way, shape, or form, indicate that one may force their religious beliefs into US Secular Law.
Marriage is a g'ment institution. As much as Christians like to pretend that their religion somewhow owns the title to the term and practice, marriage has been a g'ment institution since before Day One of the US, thanks to laws passed by the British Parliment in the mid1600's, laws that translated through our Founding as English Common Law became our own.
As there is no valid secular reason to deny gays equal use of a g'ment institution there is no valid reason to deny them that basic Civil Right of marriage.
Would you like to see people stop being "vicious, hateful and ultra-defensive" where gays, or any other concern might be? Keep your religion in the private sector where it belongs. Keep it out of our public school cirriculum, off our public property, out of our laws, and especially away from our front doors.
These passages merely recognize the existence of slavery in that culture. I don't see any "staunch advocacy".
Sure, instruction on how to treat your slaves, will them to your children, and who should be enslaved and who shouldn't sure is merely "recognizing the existance of slavery".
My point in bringing up other religious texts/religions, such as the Qu'ran/Islam is: Christianity is not the only religion, and the Bible is not the only doctrine, that teach/state homosexualiity is a sin. However, only the Bible and Christians are vehemently attacked by homosexuals. Further, I don't know whether the Qu'ran states carnal-minded people/non-believers can't interpret the Qu'ran, since these things are "spiritually discerned". The Bible does, so it's not about logic; it's about stated fact/doctrine, so my recitation stands.Further, I was clear in stating although Chrisitians believe homosexuality is a sin, that doesn't give any of us the right to bash or hate gay people and won't stop us from sharing our beliefs when the opportunity/need present themselves. Why is it okay for homosexuals to staunchly advocate their sexuality and focus on their civil rights, but wrong for Christians to share their beliefs and witness? Freedom of speech/First Amendment & Free Exercise Clause...Finally, I'm sure most Americans understand there's a constiutional separation b/n church and state. So, if the gov't is advancing religion by teaching/supporting a particular religion in public schools, on any other pubic platform, or in any other public arena, someone needs to file a legal action, not merely post here...
My fundamentalist Christian parents found out I am gay yesterday and completely disowned me; change the locks on their doors, pulled my inheritance, and told me they wish I was dead. There is no way with even reasoning with them because their entire understanding of homosexuality is that its a choice, and they aren't open to any evidence that it might not be.
Awww geez, I am so sorry to hear that Chris....It must have been the most painful thing telling your parents... I certainly hope that they come to their senses, but even if they don't, I think you have done the honest thing by telling them...
My fundamentalist Christian parents found out I am gay yesterday and completely disowned me; change the locks on their doors, pulled my inheritance, and told me they wish I was dead. There is no way with even reasoning with them because their entire understanding of homosexuality is that its a choice, and they aren't open to any evidence that it might not be.
I am so sorry to hear that, Chris. I know how hard it has been for you to keep your faith when you are being judged so harshly. They don't deserve you. You are welcome in my family in California!
My fundamentalist Christian parents found out I am gay yesterday and completely disowned me; change the locks on their doors, pulled my inheritance, and told me they wish I was dead. There is no way with even reasoning with them because their entire understanding of homosexuality is that its a choice, and they aren't open to any evidence that it might not be.
I'm probably what you would call a fundamentalist Christian. However, I don't think I could disown my own child for any reason. I might not like their actions, but I still love them.
My fundamentalist Christian parents found out I am gay yesterday and completely disowned me; change the locks on their doors, pulled my inheritance, and told me they wish I was dead. There is no way with even reasoning with them because their entire understanding of homosexuality is that its a choice, and they aren't open to any evidence that it might not be.
How sad for you, and your parents. It certainly does not seem the Christian thing to do.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
