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The thread about Christianity and support of the military got me to thinking about Jesus himself. As you know I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus but I do believe that he existed and from what is written about him in the Bible I would consider him to be the ultimate pacifist. If someone had attacked him physically I don't think he would have defended himself and of course when he knew he was about to be arrested he made no attempt to flee or encourage an uprising. If he were living in modern society I don't believe he would join the military even if it had been in the days of the draft and refusing could put you in prison.
There seems to be a stark contrast between the blood and guts of the Old Testament and even parts of the New Testament which describes the behavior of God as opposed to the behavior of Jesus. Christians believe in the Trinity in which Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are in fact one entity. If that's the case why is there such a difference between a wrathful God and a pacifist Jesus?
The thread about Christianity and support of the military got me to thinking about Jesus himself. As you know I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus but I do believe that he existed and from what is written about him in the Bible I would consider him to be the ultimate pacifist. If someone had attacked him physically I don't think he would have defended himself and of course when he knew he was about to be arrested he made no attempt to flee or encourage an uprising. If he were living in modern society I don't believe he would join the military even if it had been in the days of the draft and refusing could put you in prison.
There seems to be a stark contrast between the blood and guts of the Old Testament and even parts of the New Testament which describes the behavior of God as opposed to the behavior of Jesus. Christians believe in the Trinity in which Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are in fact one entity. If that's the case why is there such a difference between a wrathful God and a pacifist Jesus?
Jesus may have defended himself, but He may not have. From the Bible, we see that we are allowed to righteously defend ourselves and 'fight back', but we also know that it is preferable to 'turn the other cheek'. My guess is that Christ would just turn the other cheek, but He might ultimately defend Himself if the attack were relentless.
I'm glad you pick up on the difference between the wrath/blood-and-guts of the Old Testament and the Grace of the New Testament. Christianity is focused on this juxtaposition.
The Old Testament lays out for us the Law. It teaches us what good and evil are, and it teaches us God's intolerance of sin. We learn that there is no remedy for sin except through sacrifice. We learn also that salvation must be earned by good works, which no man can accomplish, and therefore sacrifices of animals are made. The details aren't as important as the overall message that men must do their own atonement and that they still fall short.
The New Testament teaches us that while God is intolerant of sin (as shown in the OT) He is still a merciful and Graceful God who has provided for us, through His Son Jesus Christ, an atonement that need not be earned and for which we have nothing to do except to accept it.
So the point of the Bible IS that contrast between the blood-and-guts consequences of sin which can be covered by the Grace of God through Christ's atonement for our sin. As a result of Christ's work and our atonement, we can live in love and service to the Lord, not out of necessity, but out of gratitude and love for God and a sincere desire to serve Him.
YES!
he would have attacked the attacker with his hammer. i'm inclined to believe that if provoked, jesus might have even bitten the guy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimatetruth
prove to me that jesus wouldn't have bit the attacker's legs if provoked!
I'm sure you were hoping for an intelligent discussion, MTGuy.
I don't know if Jesus would have defended Himself, but we also must remember what He was here for, which is why He didn't defend Himself when taken to be crucified. I don't think that that means Jesus expects us to let everyone do anything they want to us today. He gave us the common sense to protect ourselves and our loved ones. This is just my opinion, of course.
Jesus would never attack or harm another soul. He was Divine and knew that we are all God's children. No way could He have hurt another and that is why He didn't hurt the ones who hurt Him. When you love unconditionally, you find ways to help when someone attacks you instead of further harming their soul. It's bad enough that they have designs to hurt you so it's our job to lead them from that kind of thinking by showing them love and forgiveness. When you have that approach, they are more apt to change their minds. If we don't help, we are just a guilty as the one hurting.
The thread about Christianity and support of the military got me to thinking about Jesus himself. As you know I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus but I do believe that he existed and from what is written about him in the Bible I would consider him to be the ultimate pacifist. If someone had attacked him physically I don't think he would have defended himself and of course when he knew he was about to be arrested he made no attempt to flee or encourage an uprising. If he were living in modern society I don't believe he would join the military even if it had been in the days of the draft and refusing could put you in prison.
There seems to be a stark contrast between the blood and guts of the Old Testament and even parts of the New Testament which describes the behavior of God as opposed to the behavior of Jesus. Christians believe in the Trinity in which Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are in fact one entity. If that's the case why is there such a difference between a wrathful God and a pacifist Jesus?
Most people do not read the bible and make asumptions like you Montanaguy about Jesus Christ.
Jesus said "I come not to bring peace, but a sword."
And do you not remember the scriptures which said that he went into the temple and cast out the moneychangers and over threw their tables and seats. He beat them!
Most people do not read the bible and make asumptions like you Montanaguy about Jesus Christ.
Jesus said "I come not to bring peace, but a sword."
And do you not remember the scriptures which said that he went into the temple and cast out the moneychangers and over threw their tables and seats. He beat them!
Jesus is not a pacifist.
I agree Jesus said he did not come to bring peace, but a sword (the word is a double-edged sword), but I disagree that Jesus beat the money changers. He had a whip and drove them out, but it doesn't say he literally beat them with the whip.
The thread about Christianity and support of the military got me to thinking about Jesus himself. As you know I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus but I do believe that he existed and from what is written about him in the Bible I would consider him to be the ultimate pacifist. If someone had attacked him physically I don't think he would have defended himself and of course when he knew he was about to be arrested he made no attempt to flee or encourage an uprising. If he were living in modern society I don't believe he would join the military even if it had been in the days of the draft and refusing could put you in prison.
There seems to be a stark contrast between the blood and guts of the Old Testament and even parts of the New Testament which describes the behavior of God as opposed to the behavior of Jesus. Christians believe in the Trinity in which Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are in fact one entity. If that's the case why is there such a difference between a wrathful God and a pacifist Jesus?
Ah MG - I could make the ecological argument here for the bolded part - we need a wrathful god to root out evil the way god sees it.
Seriously -back to your question - if you are Jesus, then from your viewpoint you have a lot of positive outcomes if you do not defend yourself:
(a) worst case scenario - you may die. But, that would be temporary. Most of us humans would love to be in a situation like that. Give me your best shot - and it wont hurt me!
(b) if they torture you and you die, you can claim you did this to save humanity. The guilt increases your following, and god is happy. Besides, you are really not going to "die".
(c) Plus you have the knowledge that your attackers are hell-bound anyway.
Jesus is in a win-win situation regardless of if he defends himself or not.
Now if he really were alive and the son of god, no one would dare to draft him.
Personally, I do not think there is anything wrong with going to war to defend yourself - The Mahabharata is exactly that - Krishna telling a king why going to war is sometimes your duty.
So, 2 of god's popular missionaries - Jesus and Krishna - and I dont care which one is real - seem to have opposite viewpoints.
I agree Jesus said he did not come to bring peace, but a sword (the word is a double-edged sword), but I disagree that Jesus beat the money changers. He had a whip and drove them out, but it doesn't say he literally beat them with the whip.
Yeah, he took a whip with him and cast out the money changers, but did not use the whip!!!....???....No, I think not, he beat them suckers for profaning his Fathers house.
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