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How have I been unkind? By disagreeing with mormonism? It's strange, mormons go door-to-door to present a gospel that is in direct contradiction to Christians' Gospel which is from God's Word, and we are supposed to accept this as a kind and loving work being done by the mormons. However, if we present our Gospel from God's Word, we are labeled by mormons as angry and hateful and lacking humility, and as "anti-mormons". It's the old mormon double standard.
Accusing me of being a liar and a follower of Satan is hardly a kind thing to do Johnny. Most Christians would understand that.
Yes, we have differences in doctrinal beliefs, but you pretend that you somehow represent all Christians unitedly (except Mormons) with your own interpretation of scripture. And you do not! Tens of thousands of Christian churches in existence, and a lot of varying versions of the bible provide evidence that there are many differences of interpretation among the various denominations.
Here's a link to the passage in God's Word where Lucifer believed the same lie you're pushing with your out-of-context scripture references and where he fell from God's Grace for it and began sin. Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Lucifer also knows and believes that Jesus is the Christ. He did not fall because he wanted to be perfect like God the Father, he fell because he proposed a 'plan of salvation' in contrast to that of God the Father's in which he would have FORCED everyone to go to heaven. He would have taken away our agency, our individual right to choose. And he wanted the glory to himself. In short, he wanted to be ABOVE God the Father.
We are expected during mortality to make choices and do the things that will help us move closer towards becoming as God is. That is the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the opportunity we have right now by experiencing this mortal probation and having the freedom to choose good or evil on a daily basis.
Nor does a mormon calling himself Christian make him Christian as most people understand the term "Christian" to mean.
I am a real Latter-day Saint.
The word "Christian" refers to a follower of Jesus Christ, the Son of God written much of in the New Testament.
However, it's true that some members of some churches have been taught that "Christians" are only those who bow down to the dictates of the unbiblical 4th and 5th century Nicene scholars. (Mormons do not.) By that definition even the original apostles would not be Christians because the Nicene creeds had not yet been invented.
You may in your own mind be "a real Latter-day Saint" but as I mentioned several times now, you are NOT a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that phrase commonly refers to such members.
The teaching of mormon gospel is that man can be like the most High (God), and the Word of God teaches that there is none other who can ever be like the Most High.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
There is a reason why we call God the Father "Father." That is because He is literally the father of our spirit bodies. We are His spirit children the same as each of us has a father of our physical bodies.
Children can grow up and become LIKE their earthly parents. God's children can grow up and become LIKE Him. But we will never become our earthly father, and we will never become our heavenly father. He is the one and only Father of our spirit bodies, and as such He is our one and only God.
I do not see the scriptures in context contradicting that. And I do see a lot of scriptures (as I referred to earlier) pointing out that God's way for us during our mortal probation is to strive for perfection, to do our best to keep all of God's commandments and live as Christ taught us by his example to live. In short, we are expected to become as much as we can be LIKE God the Father.
You responded to my comments that included references to verses from the New Testament by doing what you accuse me of doing - quoting a few verses and claiming that yours are 'in context' but mine are somehow not. I think we both agree that it is only through the grace of Jesus Christ that we can be saved.
I don't think we agree on that entirely. You believe salvation is based on a fake "grace" which is only a partial "grace", and only kicks in "after all we can do". That's what your religion teaches, so if you're a mormon, that's what you're supposed to believe. I believe that we don't need to do anything more than believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.
And if I took any verses out of context, then show it. You haven't, and I believe that's because you can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
But please respond to the following paragraph that was also in my message:
"Where in the Holy Bible (which I assume is what you mean by "God's Word") is it written that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints follow Satan, or are puffed up in the pride of the world? You are not "merely repeating what God has already said in His Word." You are harshly and wrongly judging and rising up against followers of Jesus Christ with your own interpretation of things that you think justify your prideful self-styled (but contrary to the Sermon on the Mount) "Christ-like" behavior."
Right here:
Galatians 1:3 Grace [be] to you and peace from God the Father, and [from] our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Satan's pride is shared by Mormons who believe the same as Lucifer when Lucifer believed he would become like the Most High:
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Yes, I think Lucifer did (in the premortal life) believe that he could "become like the most high" (God the Father.)
So? What does that have to do with your condemnation of LDS doctrine? It was the way Lucifer planned to reach his goal that was wrong, not his desire to 'grow up' and become like his Father.
Can you prove to me that "Satan's pride is shared by Mormons?" That again is a harsh unkind accusation of anyone who does their best each day to humbly follow Jesus Christ and live his lifestyle Sermon on the Mount teachings, as most active Mormons do.
Accusing me of being a liar and a follower of Satan is hardly a kind thing to do Johnny. Most Christians would understand that.
I accuse you and all mormons of spreading a lie. It may be in sincerity, in that you accept that lie as truth and then spread it believing it is truth; still, it is a lie. It is against God's Word and against the core tenets of Christianity, and is therefore of Satan. I'm sure most Christians do understand that, and I offer as evidence the fact that most (if not all) traditional Christian Churches reject mormonism as being truly Christian and reject Mormon baptisms as valid baptisms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
Yes, we have differences in doctrinal beliefs, but you pretend that you somehow represent all Christians unitedly (except Mormons) with your own interpretation of scripture. And you do not! Tens of thousands of Christian churches in existence, and a lot of varying versions of the bible provide evidence that there are many differences of interpretation among the various denominations.
All of Christendom does share certain core, essential beliefs in order for those people to be considered "Christian", and mormonism contradicts several of those beliefs. Beliefs such as Monotheism (one God, only, ever) and the Trinity. These are central to Christianity. A polytheist, such as a mormon, cannot be a Christian simply by virtue of his rejection that there is but One God for all time, past, present, and future. Right there, mormons are disqualified from being Christians. Beyond that there are yet more doctrinal differences that prevent mormons from being considered Christians. Mormonism re-defines Christian terms so that they can deceive people into thinking they're Christian, but they're not.
I don't think we agree on that entirely. You believe salvation is based on a fake "grace" which is only a partial "grace", and only kicks in "after all we can do". That's what your religion teaches, so if you're a mormon, that's what you're supposed to believe. I believe that we don't need to do anything more than believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.
Are you trying to tell me what I believe? If so, you are invariably wrong, you have proven that you know very little that is the truth about the real Latter-day Saints.
I believe that no matter how well I make choices and govern my behavior that I will remain an "unprofitable servant." I believe that I will be saved only by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I also believe, because the scriptures are full of references to it, that WORKS ARE IMPORTANT! Otherwise, why would God even give us commandments at all? And why would there be a judgment day?
But you can argue all your life about the grace versus works thing. Christianity is rife with differing interpretations and understandings of that, it's not just the Mormons you will argue with if you so choose to do so. It's probably more prudent to just accept that different denominations and different individual followers of Jesus Christ have a variety of understandings about that topic.
Lucifer also knows and believes that Jesus is the Christ. He did not fall because he wanted to be perfect like God the Father, he fell because he proposed a 'plan of salvation' in contrast to that of God the Father's in which he would have FORCED everyone to go to heaven. He would have taken away our agency, our individual right to choose. And he wanted the glory to himself. In short, he wanted to be ABOVE God the Father.
More lies of Mormonism. There is no "plan of salvation" proposed by Lucifer except in the extraneous Mormon scriptures (which are rejected by ALL Christianity). There is no "plan of salvation" in the Holy Bible which, in Christianity, is exclusively God's Word. Mormonism only comes up with their new versions of satan and jesus through their additional "scriptures" which are rejected by every Christian in the world. Your whole story about Lucifer is a lie and comes from false, fake "scriptures" that no Christian accepts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
We are expected during mortality to make choices and do the things that will help us move closer towards becoming as God is. That is the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the opportunity we have right now by experiencing this mortal probation and having the freedom to choose good or evil on a daily basis.
That is the message of YOUR false mormon gospel.
The message of the True Gospel is that all men are sinners, no man can earn his salvation at all, salvation is by Grace alone, by believing in Christ, which comes through hearing the Word of God, and salvation is not affected by our works, either good or bad. "Mortal probation" - what a stupid thing, just more satanic mormon lies.
The word "Christian" refers to a follower of Jesus Christ, the Son of God written much of in the New Testament.
But mormons have a DIFFERENT Jesus Christ. Your leaders have said so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
However, it's true that some members of some churches have been taught that "Christians" are only those who bow down to the dictates of the unbiblical 4th and 5th century Nicene scholars. (Mormons do not.) By that definition even the original apostles would not be Christians because the Nicene creeds had not yet been invented.
This is a lie from mormons also. They misconstrue Christianity as being the construct of the Nicene Council. In any case, I would find it much more reliable to go by the council of men who were consecrated as bishops by Apostles themselves than by the fabrications of an upstate NY hick from the 1800's who was a polygamist pedophile by the name of Joseph Smith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
You may in your own mind be "a real Latter-day Saint" but as I mentioned several times now, you are NOT a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that phrase commonly refers to such members.
You may in your own mind be a real "Christian" but as I mentioned several times now, you are NOT a believer in Jesus Christ or the Christians' Word of God which is the Holy Bible, and the term "Christian" commonly refers to such believers.
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