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OK, I believe that the Bible in its entirety is the Word of God and it is ALL relevant. Though the NT is certainly where we see our hope fulfilled, it does not make the OT irrelevent to us today. The commandment is thou shalt not murder. IMHO, here is my perspective on the OP. I think killing babies is horrible, I could not argue with you there, but I have no power of my own to see a baby beyond what my human eyes can show me- an innocent, defenseless child. God, though, in His infinate wisdom can see our hearts, and had the power to see where these hearts were headed- IMHO, He knew what/ who they would become, and had to take them all out in order to defeat this enemy and fulfill His will. This isn't the only place in the Bible where God killed people. The flood, Sodom and Gomorah, plagues, and others, all which would have involved infants. The difference with abortion or the murdering of anyone regardless of age is by who's will and wisdom it is done. We do not have the wisdom nor can we see what God can in the heart of another, therefor we are not justified in taking lives using our own wisdom by our own will.
When you think about it the OT guys were no different than the radical Muslims of today. Their "god" says to kill certain types....so did OT god. So it is okay to kill if some "god" says to. Cool. Maybe we should get a big ole band of "Christians" together to go kill all the little Muslim kids because after all their parents are evil and the NT "god" know the hearts of those kids are evil too. (Sarcasm alert!) Note to moderators: Of course I jest....just proving a point. Killing babies is never okay even when a big, mean, vengeful, yet gentle and loving "god" says it is okay.
You a fallen creation would second guess or judge the Creator?
You, a fallen creation, would deign to judge another person on whether they're good or evil, and whether they're acceptable to your god? That smells deeply of hypocrisy.
Killing any person, in the eyes of God, is a sin. When you kill another, you are, in fact, harming your own soul. It has no bearing on the person killed, only yourself and that person will pay the penalty upon death of the material body. The bible even states thou shall not kill. God does not kill, humans do and project a hate filled God who could create something and then destroy it. God is not like that. God is Love. He is Divine. No person who is like God can kill. It's impossible because love is the ruling factor. Only when you are hate filled can you kill. God does not know hate.
When the bible states that God willed someone to kill, it was mans own interpretation of what God would want so man entered it into the bible. Man did those acts and blamed God. Sorry folks, God does not kill.
I know quite a few people who believe in god/Jesus but hate the OT.
In early Christianity, there was a VERY popular teaching that went this route. It was called Marcionism, named after its most recognizable proponent, Marcion. It resembled the teachings of Gnosticism. It was an early attempt to deal with the blatantly obvious question - why is the God of the Old Testament so bloodthirsty, petty and maniacal as opposed to the loving God (reflected in Jesus) in the New Testament. Instead of drawing the best conclusion (the whole idea of "God" is a farce), this was the best some early Christians could come up with. Needless to say, Marcionism was rejected by the powers that be and eventually led to the Apostle's Creed and the rise of Christian orthodoxy, which ironically, left the waters even more cloudy to this very day, leaving Christians to explain one of the most silliest concepts ever invented - the trinity.
Last edited by InsaneInDaMembrane; 05-11-2009 at 09:39 AM..
Killing any person, in the eyes of God, is a sin. When you kill another, you are, in fact, harming your own soul. It has no bearing on the person killed, only yourself and that person will pay the penalty upon death of the material body. The bible even states thou shall not kill. God does not kill, humans do and project a hate filled God who could create something and then destroy it. God is not like that. God is Love. He is Divine. No person who is like God can kill. It's impossible because love is the ruling factor. Only when you are hate filled can you kill. God does not know hate.
When the bible states that God willed someone to kill, it was mans own interpretation of what God would want so man entered it into the bible. Man did those acts and blamed God. Sorry folks, God does not kill.
Interesting how it is "mans intrepretation" when gd is credited with something bad, but their bible is the literal word of god. The two do not equate. After all, you can't have it both ways.
The bible makes it clear that killing is a sin. However, in 1 Samuel 15:2-3 you can see that God told people to kill babies. I am only going to post those verses because I don't want to take too much space posting an entire chapter. You can read the whole story if you like. I read it already. By the way, that is not the only part of the bible where God kills babies. So here is it:
2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts: I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he set himself against him in the way, when he came up out of Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
So far, the only answers I got from several Christians online why God told people to kill defenseless babies was
1-- "because he can"
My answer: Okay.... that is not a very good reason.
2-- "because their parents were evil"
My answer: So the babies were killed because their parents were evil?
I thought God was love and fair but on the other hand, he told people to kill innocent babies. What did the babies do to deserve to get killed? What sins did they commit?
3-- "because God is love"
My answer: That is a sick and twisted answer.
4-- "don't question him, he can do what he wants"
My answer: Okay, so I am suppose to pretend that part of the bible doesn't exist. I am suppose to remain quiet even when it's clearly a sin. It's like having a best friend who claims to be a vegetarian but he eats a cheeseburger in front of me and my other friend whispers into my ears "Shhh, don't tell him he is not a vegetarian"
5-- "God is holy"
My answer: So when you reach this level of holiness, you now have the privilege to kill babies? Okay, if you say so...
6.-- "God works in mysterious ways"
My answer: Hmmm... I already studied the crime scene and all of the evidence in the bible, and the conclusion still remains that KILLING BABIES is WRONG. Do Christians get a thrill from this? How can you call this holy?
7-- "hey, it didn't happen to me, why should I care?"
My answer: believe it or not, this is a response that I got. This is very selfish and wrong to think like this.
My thoughts: It is very ridiculous that Christians have to defend God for killing babies. I sit back and watch how they react to this question and most of the time they tell me not to talk about it in the main chat room. I thought they were suppose to preach the bible to everyone. Why must we speak about the bible in secret? Will the government arrest us if they catch us having a conversation about what is written in the bible? Some Christians suggested that I go to their church and get bible studies. What will this accomplish? Will you somehow convince me that killing babies is good? That it's not a sin?
God telling people to kill and him killing babies himself is just another method of getting an abortion. It's the same thing because in both instances, their main goal is to kill the baby.
God is creator of all, so he can command that an entire nation be destroyed. God is owner of everything and everyone, so he has right to give laws to all. The Amalekites were evil and God commanded that the be removed from the face of the earth for their evil. God has destroyed many nations. God destroyed all those who lived on the earth using a flood. This consisted of all men, woman, children and animals not on the ark with Noah and his family. God destroyed Sodem and Gomorrah with fire from heaven. So, in this case God used the Israelites to destroy.
Now, you have taken two different things and attempted to judge one by the other. This is where you err in your arguement. The bible declares in the ten commandments that we are not to kill. That is you should not murder another person. However, a soldier who performs an act to kill as instructed by his superiors is acting to protect his contry and by orders of those who are above him. If he goes outside of his orders, he can be punished, but so long as he follows his orders he is under the protection of his superiors. For example the men who dropped the bombs on Nagasaki and Heroshima, were performing a task of war as ordered by their superiors. When droping the bombs they were in effect killing thousands of civilians, men, woman and children. But, because they were ordered and as part of there duties they were protected. Now, the superiors who gave the order, have the right to protect their country, but to go outside of this can result in thier punishment.
Now, God is righteous and soverign and outside of the bonds of time. So, God can see the future. Which means he could see the outcomes of this sinful nation. Much like the bombs stopped the 2nd World War, God's commandment put an end to this evil to keep it from continuing.
Now, does this mean it is OK to murder inocent children in their mothers womb? No, not unless all of these children envitro banded together and threatened the safety of the lives of the citizins of the entire country they were being born into (of course the government would have to find out about this plot of babe world domination).
Killing any person, in the eyes of God, is a sin. When you kill another, you are, in fact, harming your own soul. It has no bearing on the person killed, only yourself and that person will pay the penalty upon death of the material body. The bible even states thou shall not kill. God does not kill, humans do and project a hate filled God who could create something and then destroy it. God is not like that. God is Love. He is Divine. No person who is like God can kill. It's impossible because love is the ruling factor. Only when you are hate filled can you kill. God does not know hate.
When the bible states that God willed someone to kill, it was mans own interpretation of what God would want so man entered it into the bible. Man did those acts and blamed God. Sorry folks, God does not kill.
You appear to never have read the bible. God has destroyed many nations see the flood of Noah's day and Sodem and Gomorrah. God however does not kill out of hate. God is righteous so, he can kill as a means to protect those he loves.
Have you not read that God slew err. Or how the man who steadied the ark of covenant, when he put forth his hand he was slain by the power of God. God destroys those who are evil and disregard his commandments. If you are evil and live a full life, God will still destroy you in hell for eternity.
God even admits this himself, he says, "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand". (Deut. 32:39)
To attempt to say that God's act of killing was added to the bible is ludicrous, there are far too many copies of the bible, torah, suplimentary documents for it to even be possible. No the word of God is pure.
In early Christianity, there was a VERY popular teaching that went this route. It was called Marcionism, named after its most recognizable proponent, Marcion. It resembled the teachings of Gnosticism. It was an early attempt to deal with the blatantly obvious question - why is the God of the Old Testament so bloodthirsty, petty and maniacal as opposed to the loving God (reflected in Jesus) in the New Testament. Instead of drawing the best conclusion (the whole idea of "God" is a farce), this was the best some early Christians could come up with. Needless to say, Marcionism was rejected by the powers that be and eventually led to the Apostle's Creed and the rise of Christian orthodoxy, which ironically, left the waters even more cloudy to this very day, leaving Christians to explain one of the most silliest concepts ever invented - the trinity.
Christians do not have to explain the concept of the trinity. This is evident in scripture from the very first verse that God is a triune being by nature. No, all one has to do is read the bible and see for themselves.
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