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"they are the only doors there,
go into anyone you want."
anti-god/anti-religion and my-god-only/my-religion-only points to a select set of doors and says:
"use these, they are all you need."
and when we ask about the other doors is when they start tap dancing around the answers. or calling us names when we say, "hey, the ones you showed us are only closets?"
"seeking fellowship" with those who have a common interest, has a very different tone than "they have no friends or personal life."
i am just saying if you are going to use it as a pejorative, which you did in the earlier post, it applies to all flavors of "religion and spirituality" including Buddhism and atheism. if you are going to use it as "seeking fellowship" "solitary contemplation" "not something people do for fellowship" it also applies to all flavors of "religion and spirituality."
the premise of the earlier post (shown below) is along the lines of losers resort to religion and spirituality. so I pointed out that would include Buddhism and atheism. then you introduced the much more positive "fellowship" and "solitary contemplation." whatever pejorative you choose applies across the board. same with the kinder appelations you use.
if a person truly thinks that people hang out with God because they are losers with no friends or personal life, then they are altogether missing the point of religion and spirituality. that is my observation. that is not about the person phet, but the views expressed in posts.
First of all, you read it as a perjorative becaue of your frame of mind. Here's what I wrote: "For SOME people, a lack of a satisfying personal life increase the need for a spiritual life. We have one poster who seems to be in a place of no personal friends, therefore god is his/her only friend. That's not most people, but it is some." There's nothing negative about that statement. It's neutral.
I have actually known a few people who had/have no personal friends outside of church. Maybe yo don't want to believe that, but I have actually known people like that. It's an old term, but there are people out there who are virtual "shut-ins". With the exception that someone would take them to church on Sunday, where they'd basically sit in a pew and pretty much not interact with anyone, and then go home and unless they had to go to the doctor, drug store, or grocery store would remain in their house pretty much 24/7. Until the next Sunday. We had one in our neighborhood when I was growing up. I knew a couple of teachers who outside of their work, where they were pretty much loners, their only social life was church.
YOU used the term "losers". I didn't. And that is pejorative.
Maybe you don't know much about Theravada Buddhism. It's not much about fellowship. My favorite temple to go in Bangkok, in fact I went there most days for at least fifteen or thirty minutes, was a temple in the heart of the commercial district. There was no fellowship involved, unless you think nodding to someone or saying hello is fellowship. Each person went in, got a prayer mat, meditated for fifteen minutes to an hour, and left. Because it is generally solitary meditation seeking the inner self. The only typical community stuff revolved around funerals, and specific Buddhist holidays.
Further go back to my post that responded to. I said "SOME" and "That's not most people, but it is some". Did it ever occur to you how frequently you go into attack mode?
Tzaphkiel, I also made a comment that older people that don't have family left might consider or enjoy a friendship with God. But that doesn't make them a loser. And I didn't take phetaroi's comment as meaning they were losers either. On the internet its hard to read tone.
There are people who for whatever reason don't have a lot of social options. They can be alone with their thoughts and/or their God if they choose. It can be a good or bad thing. There are lonely people in this world but it doesn't make them losers.
If I outlive my husband and friends (most of my family is gone and some friends) well then its me and my cat and bird and all of nature. I already talk to them, yea I'm a nut that talks to animals. I even go so far as to talk to dead people. And if that makes me a loser, so be it. I'll be a happy loser Its best not to worry what others think.
Hope you didn't feel I was saying people are losers. Didn't mean that at all.
Tzaphkiel, I also made a comment that older people that don't have family left might consider or enjoy a friendship with God. But that doesn't make them a loser. And I didn't take phetaroi's comment as meaning they were losers either. On the internet its hard to read tone.
There are people who for whatever reason don't have a lot of social options. They can be alone with their thoughts and/or their God if they choose. It can be a good or bad thing. There are lonely people in this world but it doesn't make them losers.
If I outlive my husband and friends (most of my family is gone and some friends) well then its me and my cat and bird and all of nature. I already talk to them, yea I'm a nut that talks to animals. I even go so far as to talk to dead people. And if that makes me a loser, so be it. I'll be a happy loser Its best not to worry what others think.
Hope you didn't feel I was saying people are losers. Didn't mean that at all.
Thank you. In fact, if one sifted back through my posts over the last few years, one would find quite a few posts where I praised the fellowship that I saw and (as a guest) I experienced at my neighbor's methodist church.
First of all, you read it as a perjorative becaue of your frame of mind. Here's what I wrote: "For SOME people, a lack of a satisfying personal life increase the need for a spiritual life. We have one poster who seems to be in a place of no personal friends, therefore god is his/her only friend. That's not most people, but it is some." There's nothing negative about that statement. It's neutral.
I have actually known a few people who had/have no personal friends outside of church. Maybe yo don't want to believe that, but I have actually known people like that. It's an old term, but there are people out there who are virtual "shut-ins". With the exception that someone would take them to church on Sunday, where they'd basically sit in a pew and pretty much not interact with anyone, and then go home and unless they had to go to the doctor, drug store, or grocery store would remain in their house pretty much 24/7. Until the next Sunday. We had one in our neighborhood when I was growing up. I knew a couple of teachers who outside of their work, where they were pretty much loners, their only social life was church.
YOU used the term "losers". I didn't. And that is pejorative.
Maybe you don't know much about Theravada Buddhism. It's not much about fellowship. My favorite temple to go in Bangkok, in fact I went there most days for at least fifteen or thirty minutes, was a temple in the heart of the commercial district. There was no fellowship involved, unless you think nodding to someone or saying hello is fellowship. Each person went in, got a prayer mat, meditated for fifteen minutes to an hour, and left. Because it is generally solitary meditation seeking the inner self. The only typical community stuff revolved around funerals, and specific Buddhist holidays.
Further go back to my post that responded to. I said "SOME" and "That's not most people, but it is some". Did it ever occur to you how frequently you go into attack mode?
i pointed out to you how your comments sound.
and when i did so you softened the tone considerably.
whatever comments you make about human behavior with regards to any flavor of "religion and spirituality,"
those comments apply to all flavors. that is what i am pointing out.
same beliefs? no.
save behaviors? yes, most definitely.
"contemplative" "solitary" "no friends" "fellowship" "no fellowship involved" "shut ins" "loners" "social life" "nodding" "saying hello" "meditation" "15 minutes or an hour" "seeking the inner self" "solitary meditation" "typical community stuff" "funerals" "holidays"
my point is you are drawing correlations and ascribing them to this or that group, and that is NOT neutral. Neutral is recognizing that the human behaviors you describe occur in every single group of humans in every flavor of religion and spirituality. That is what I am pointing out.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-08-2019 at 01:24 PM..
Thank you. In fact, if one sifted back through my posts over the last few years, one would find quite a few posts where I praised the fellowship that I saw and (as a guest) I experienced at my neighbor's methodist church.
You're welcome Fellowship is great. As a Pagan, I find more fellowship on the internet than locally. So I get what you're saying about the fellowship you saw at your neighbor's church. Its nice when you can gather together somewhere. But we don't all have that. Not knocking fellowship.
i pointed out to you how your comments sound.
and when i did so you softened the tone considerably.
whatever comments you make about human behavior with regards to any flavor of "religion and spirituality,"
those comments apply to all flavors. that is what i am pointing out.
same beliefs? no.
save behaviors? yes, most definitely.
"contemplative" "solitary" "no friends" "fellowship" "no fellowship involved" "shut ins" "loners" "social life" "nodding" "saying hello" "meditation" "15 minutes or an hour" "seeking the inner self" "solitary meditation" "typical community stuff" "funerals" "holidays"
my point is you are drawing correlations and ascribing them to this or that group, and that is NOT neutral. Neutral is recognizing that the human behaviors you describe occur in every single group of humans in every flavor of religion and spirituality. That is what I am pointing out.
1. Again, that's your perception.
2. But, no they don't. There are things in Buddhism that I very much disagree with, so I'm not promoting it. But to say that Buddhist "worhsip" (and I hesitate to use that word) is the same as christian worship is ridiculous. I have been in Muslim mosques; very different from either of the above. No the same behaviors.
3. Sorry, but I disagree from your kumbaya viewpoint. (And that was pejorative).
You're welcome Fellowship is great. As a Pagan, I find more fellowship on the internet than locally. So I get what you're saying about the fellowship you saw at your neighbor's church. Its nice when you can gather together somewhere. But we don't all have that. Not knocking fellowship.
Fellowship can be good. But it can vary so much even within a particular organization. When I was struggling with weight (as I am again now), I tried Overeaters Anonymous in Colorado Springs. The particular group that I went to was great. It was all men, they relaxed the rules to make it work for the group, and I enjoyed the fellowship. Tried it here and, even though it was the same organization, very strict rules (for example, absolutely no cross-talk), and it seemed very mechanical to me, and almost embarrassing to be there. I have walked into some christian churches and felt very welcomed, others that felt unwelcoming, and still others that just felt neutral. When I moved here to Arizona I thought I would start a card group, and the first group of people that came...made me feel uncomfortable in my own house. Dropped that. Started a fresh group of different people, and we have a great time. Human chemistry is a big part of how successful fellowship is.
First of all, you read it as a perjorative becaue of your frame of mind. Here's what I wrote: "For SOME people, a lack of a satisfying personal life increase the need for a spiritual life. We have one poster who seems to be in a place of no personal friends, therefore god is his/her only friend. That's not most people, but it is some." There's nothing negative about that statement. It's neutral.
if you seriously think that is a "neutral" statement and "nothing negative"
then you agree the following are also "neutral statements" and "nothing negative"
"For SOME atheists, a lack of a satisfying personal life increase the need to be an atheist. We have one poster who seems to be in a place of no personal friends, therefore joining with others bashing God online is their only friend. That's not most atheists, but it is some."
"For SOME Buddhists, a lack of a satisfying personal life increase the need for a Buddhist life. We have one poster who seems to be in a place of no personal friends, therefore meditation is their only friend. That's not most Buddhists, but it is some."
Those are not my views. Those are given as examples. My view is no, they are not neutral statements; and yes they are negative.
Fellowship can be good. But it can vary so much even within a particular organization. When I was struggling with weight (as I am again now), I tried Overeaters Anonymous in Colorado Springs. The particular group that I went to was great. It was all men, they relaxed the rules to make it work for the group, and I enjoyed the fellowship. Tried it here and, even though it was the same organization, very strict rules (for example, absolutely no cross-talk), and it seemed very mechanical to me, and almost embarrassing to be there. I have walked into some christian churches and felt very welcomed, others that felt unwelcoming, and still others that just felt neutral. When I moved here to Arizona I thought I would start a card group, and the first group of people that came...made me feel uncomfortable in my own house. Dropped that. Started a fresh group of different people, and we have a great time. Human chemistry is a big part of how successful fellowship is.
Very true! And I'm glad you found a much better group! Yikes to be made uncomfortable in your own home
It even applies to things like towns. One town can have a real friendly outgoing vibe. And another snooty. I still miss where I grew up. Or work places... used to work in a office building that had over 20 floors. Our floor was real laid back, some floors were like you entered a mausoleum. Human chemistry for sure.
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Its best not to worry what others think. 
