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...... My favorite temple to go in Bangkok, in fact I went there most days for at least fifteen or thirty minutes, was a temple in the heart of the commercial district. There was no fellowship involved, unless you think nodding to someone or saying hello is fellowship. Each person went in, got a prayer mat, meditated for fifteen minutes to an hour, and left. Because it is generally solitary meditation seeking the inner self. ....
i would say that is the essence at the core of all "religion and spirituality"
prayer, meditation, solitary, connect with the inner self, the soul, the Divine, the All that is.
fellowship and being around others may be part of that, but the essential work of going within is solitary.
nicely put.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-08-2019 at 06:46 PM..
He is talking about me. He joined the thread simply to attack me as he does on all threads I post on. He needs Jesus.
Jesus had zero friends. He was a loner. But He had God so He was doing fine.
I mentioned in a certain context weeks ago that I had no personal friends & so now the attacker stalks me around the forum telling everyone over & over that I have no friends. LOL
I live in a tropical paradise where everyone is friends by default. So I have thousands of friends. But I choose to spend all my personal time alone in prayer & meditation in order to be close to God & The Spiritual Side.
Jesus had his disciples. They were his friends. We don't know much about his "missing" years, but there is no reason that I know of to think that he did not have friends.
i would say that is the essence at the core of all "religion and spirituality"
prayer, meditation, solitary, connect with the inner self, the soul, the Divine, the All that is.
fellowship and being around others may be part of that, but the essential work of going within is solitary.
nicely put.
Then why are most church services singing hymns TOGETHER, praying TOGETHER, giving and received the sign of peace? In the Methodist church that I sometimes attended, several minutes in the first ten minutes of the service was going and shaking hands and saying hello to people. There was maybe 3 minutes of solitary "thought".
Science is not hard It is soft and ever changing -that is proven daily
As to religion being invented- people are always trying to be better than the animals they so quickly revert to
Well, yes it does. Since I have to read these ancient threads that keep getting reopened to decide if the conversation is still valid enough to keep the thread going, I might as well let someone like yourself who seems to have missed that they are responding to a banned member know so that they don't expect an answer. Just trying to keep the conversation relevant.
Ancient threads, banned members, "valid" conversation...
Intriguing. Wish I knew the back story and more about exchanging comment with people who can't respond. Can a banned person still comment in this forum? I thought no ability to respond was only when that person put someone else on their "Ignore list" such that they don't even see the comment from the person they have chose to ignore.
Spirituality is one of several techniques/methods people can employ to remain grounded (at least for a time).
Spirituality doesn't require gods or religions, and neither has a monopoly on it.
Spirituality is in part recognizing that there's more to life than who you are and in part just taking the time to marvel at things.
Again, I recognize there is more to life than who I am, and I very much take the time to "marvel at things." Very much try to as much as possible anyway. Comes easy in fact. None of which requires gods or religions or spirituality for that matter. I think there are many ways to describe being connected to something bigger than ourselves other than to be spiritual. Better ways that don't tend to lean in that direction of suggesting that something bigger is divine or intelligent or involves a meaning for our existence.
As a rule anyway, people who claim to be spiritual typically believe there is something going on in and around us beyond what I believe is going on in and around us. If your definition of spirituality is simply limited to the belief that there is more to life than who we are and to take time to marvel at all there is to marvel about, then by that definition I too am spiritual.
Still, I don't describe myself that way because most people don't keep the definition of spiritual simple or limited in that way...
"they are the only doors there,
go into anyone you want."
anti-god/anti-religion and my-god-only/my-religion-only points to a select set of doors and says:
"use these, they are all you need."
and when we ask about the other doors is when they start tap dancing around the answers. or calling us names when we say, "hey, the ones you showed us are only closets?"
Again I can't speak for all atheists, and I don't think you do a good job of trying to do so...
As an atheist I would say before we start talking about what doors to consider, we should establish what doors are actually there and why we should think so. Otherwise, we might be wasting time something like trying to find water in a dry desert and getting excited by nothing but a mirage.
First of all, you read it as a perjorative becaue of your frame of mind. Here's what I wrote: "For SOME people, a lack of a satisfying personal life increase the need for a spiritual life. We have one poster who seems to be in a place of no personal friends, therefore god is his/her only friend. That's not most people, but it is some." There's nothing negative about that statement. It's neutral.
I have actually known a few people who had/have no personal friends outside of church. Maybe yo don't want to believe that, but I have actually known people like that. It's an old term, but there are people out there who are virtual "shut-ins". With the exception that someone would take them to church on Sunday, where they'd basically sit in a pew and pretty much not interact with anyone, and then go home and unless they had to go to the doctor, drug store, or grocery store would remain in their house pretty much 24/7. Until the next Sunday. We had one in our neighborhood when I was growing up. I knew a couple of teachers who outside of their work, where they were pretty much loners, their only social life was church.
YOU used the term "losers". I didn't. And that is pejorative.
Maybe you don't know much about Theravada Buddhism. It's not much about fellowship. My favorite temple to go in Bangkok, in fact I went there most days for at least fifteen or thirty minutes, was a temple in the heart of the commercial district. There was no fellowship involved, unless you think nodding to someone or saying hello is fellowship. Each person went in, got a prayer mat, meditated for fifteen minutes to an hour, and left. Because it is generally solitary meditation seeking the inner self. The only typical community stuff revolved around funerals, and specific Buddhist holidays.
Further go back to my post that responded to. I said "SOME" and "That's not most people, but it is some". Did it ever occur to you how frequently you go into attack mode?
I tend to agree with you, but if we are honest, the observations we choose to share can most definitely be considered other than "neutral." For example, if you chose to explain that MOST people who choose a spiritual life are mostly happy, enriched people with full lives and lots of friends, you invoke one image. If instead you choose to mention how SOME people are spiritual because they lack a satisfying personal life with no personal friends, a different image comes to mind.
Fellowship can be good. But it can vary so much even within a particular organization. When I was struggling with weight (as I am again now), I tried Overeaters Anonymous in Colorado Springs. The particular group that I went to was great. It was all men, they relaxed the rules to make it work for the group, and I enjoyed the fellowship. Tried it here and, even though it was the same organization, very strict rules (for example, absolutely no cross-talk), and it seemed very mechanical to me, and almost embarrassing to be there. I have walked into some christian churches and felt very welcomed, others that felt unwelcoming, and still others that just felt neutral. When I moved here to Arizona I thought I would start a card group, and the first group of people that came...made me feel uncomfortable in my own house. Dropped that. Started a fresh group of different people, and we have a great time. Human chemistry is a big part of how successful fellowship is.
As long as we are sharing personal experience and you are always pretty generous about doing so, I can relate and share something similar from my personal experience...
I've always lived a fairly "social" life with lots of friends and work acquaintances that I have enjoyed over the years, but upon retiring where my wife and I are not very close to friends or family, I got to looking for how I might fill the social void I was used to having so full. My wife not so much, because she has never really leaned toward lots of social life.
Anyway, I tried a variety of groups, organizations and volunteer work that for the most part was similarly disappointing. Especially the clubs or groups with their various rules, regulations and rituals, I was typically quickly turned off. Finally, I'm just content to enjoy very full days with my wife doing all variety of things that doesn't involve other people. Like remodeling our home going 7 years since we retired here. Fortunately for us, our kids and significant others are close enough for weekend visits, and we enjoy their company (all four of them) very much. I visit old friends now and then, but that frequency is no doubt fading with time and space.
So for me anyway, I've simply chosen to rely less on "fellowship" and instead simply make the most of all else there is to easily and readily enjoy around us that doesn't involve other people. Of course my wife and I have one another too, and that's a biggie, but I suspect I would continue the same path if I were alone instead. Mostly anyway. Hard to know what awaits down the road of life or how we'll deal with the many transitions from what we get used to...
Again I can't speak for all atheists, and I don't think you do a good job of trying to do so...
As an atheist I would say before we start talking about what doors to consider, we should establish what doors are actually there and why we should think so. Otherwise, we might be wasting time something like trying to find water in a dry desert and getting excited by nothing but a mirage.
Good post.
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