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Mormons Made Simple - a thread to learn about and civilly discuss all aspects of Mormonism.
There continues to be a lot of interest in the religious beliefs and practices of members of the 13,500,000 member worldwide Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the "Mormons." Moderator cut: Deleted due to it's pertaining to moderator actions taken. So, this time with permission from a moderator, I thought I'd start this new thread to replace the old "Ask a Mormon" thread that was recently closed after more than 25,000 views.
Here's a link to the Ask a Mormon archives if anyone's interested, there's a whole lot of discussion there both pro and con:
Although I cannot speak for the LDS Church or anyone else, I have been an active Latter-day Saint for about forty years so I think that my views are representative of the average mainstream religious thinking and beliefs of many of the active Saints. I'll visit here as often as I can but it is my hope that other active Mormons on this board will also contribute their points of view and understandings and take over when it's obvious that I'm not available.
Please don't criticize unduly if all the Mormons on this board don't see everything exactly the same way. We're human beings too, each with our own individual crosses to bear, weaknesses to overcome, capacities and talents, and understandings about the universe we find ourselves in.
My objective is to lay out the truth about the Mormons as best I and other faithful Latter-day Saints on this board know it, and to leave it to readers to decide for themselves if it works for them or not.If you want to know anything about the Mormons, please post your question or comments in this thread so as to not take others off-topic, thanks.
Before you post you may want to have a look at a totally unofficial website that shows simple cartoon videos about things Mormons are involved in. Pretty simple stuff actually, we can add to it in this thread if you have questions:
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For anyone who is interested in learning more about Mormons than is found on this board, below are some of the official websites of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints where you can browse anonymously, watch videos, even chat live with a real full-time Mormon missionary at www.mormon.org
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Below is a link to an unofficial apologetic website that is fair to the Latter-day Saints. You will find intelligent well-researched scholarly responses to criticsof the LDS Church, its history, beliefs, religious practices, etc. If you are swayed to believe something you read on an anti-Mormon website that contradicts what you read on any of the sites linked above, this is the place where you will find that it has most likely already been addressed and soundly refuted. Most anti-Mormon media just repeat the same old misrepresentations intended to deceive people about our beliefs.
Give us a chance to tell it the way WE know it and live it! We do that much better than do apostates and enemies of our church!
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Mormons believe that Jesus will return to Missouri, not Jerusalem.
Mormons believe that there are levels in heaven. (this answers holes in the Christian story, but still)
Mormons believe you can baptize the dead (so how does this work, if they didn't do it of their own free will)
Mormons expect mandatory tithing.
Mormons believe you should have no pleasures in life. No coffee, no tobacoo, no drugs, etc.
Mormons believe that when you die, you go to spirit paradise, or spirit prison waiting for the second coming.
But probably what pisses me off to no end is what they did to a girl I knew once.
She and I dated for a little bit, she wanted me to convert to Mormonisim, but I didn't buy into it. She wanted to be married in the Temple, and of course I couldn't get into the temple unless I was Mormon. Anyway, before her and I dated, she had sex with another guy. She loved him, he told her that he loved her. They dated for a long time, but in the end he left her. So she confessed her sin to the chuch and then THEY FREAKIN BANNED HER FROM CHURCH!!!!
I couldn't believe it. How is one supposed to make up for their sin if they are banned from Church. This wasn't a short ban either, it was like 2 years. She was devistated, we were freinds at this point, but still I felt bad for her. I tried to console her by telling her that her leaders were wrong, because Christ himself said "judge not, lest ye be judged".
Still, I will never ever worship a church that bans their members from practicing when they commit a sin. She didn't commit adultery, she wasn't married, she gave into to a man that she loved, thinking that he loved her.
Pitiful excuse for a religion. Anyone with a brain can see that Joseph Smith was a guy just making up crap as he went along.
I'll try to get to each of your points Memphis though it may take a while, thanks for being the first to get me going.
Actually I don't know a single Mormon who believes in "magic underwear" and doubt that there is one. But apparently that is taught on anti-Mormon websites somewhere because it comes up quite often in threads like this.
It's no secret though that Mormons who have been through certain ordinances in LDS temples wear from that time on clothing that reminds them of the covenants they made with God. That's probably what you are referencing.
Orthodox Jews too wear special clothing to remind them of God and His commandments and covenants. Perhaps some other religions and maybe some mystical groups do too.
Regarding the "magic" quality of temple clothing, it's possible that came from some people thinking that the temple garments would protect them from physical harm. And you could probably come up with some stories somewhere too so maybe my opening remark wasn't completely accurate. (Drat, gotta get perfecter.)
I think most Mormons though understand the real purpose of temple clothing, as explained above, and if there is protection from physical harm it's not because of something magical in the cloth, but because of faith.
That's the best I can do with that one Memphis, maybe another Saint on board can enlighten you further or provide a link to a better explanation.
Mormons believe that Jesus will return to Missouri, not Jerusalem.
Yes, and no. The resurrected Savior does visit this earth in our time and takes care of directing the business of preparing this world for his glorious second coming, the destruction of the wicked by fire, and the ushering in of a thousand years of peace commonly called the "Millennium." Some of those visits may be to Missouri, one in particular for sure, to fulfill prophecy.
As I understand what is prophesied and not yet fulfilled, the ancient translated city of Enoch will descend to this planet and will become at least a portion of the prophesied "New Jerusalem" which will be centered in Missouri. There, during the Millennium, will be the center of the theocratic government of this world headed by Jesus Christ. But the Savior himself will yet descend on the Mount of Olives and there show the wounds in his hands and in his feet to the Jews fleeing out of besieged Jerusalem. He will dwell a thousand years, not where Missouri is located today, but in Old Jerususalem.
1...Why is tithing mandatory? How about those that can't afford it...Do they get a pass?
2...Why is it ok to drink wine you make yourself, but no other achoholic drink?
3...I know you are not allowed coffee, but apparently you are not allowed any hot drink...How come?
4...Mormons believe that everyone on earth now was a spirit in the pre-existence. When we die, our spirits are separated from our bodies and if we were good they go to “spirit paradise.” If we were bad they go to “spirit prison.”....Where are these places?
5...Thomas S. Monson is the president and prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Is it true, or do you believe anything that the prophet says in official capacity is considered official canon?
Here my first five questions...Once you've answered these I have more.
Mormons believe that there are levels in heaven. (this answers holes in the Christian story, but still)
Yes, we do.
The Bible, though it is in the LDS canon and we study and reverence it, does not clearly answer all of the questions that come to mortal minds. If it did, there would not be something like 38,000 Christian denominations, most of them probably interpreting or emphasizing something in the bible different than other denominations. It should seem obvious to independent open-minded truth seekers that there is a need today for additional revelation and living prophets and apostles, as there was anciently.
But there are references in the bible to mansions in heaven, and to three kingdoms of glory: the "Celestial" comparable to the light of the sun, the "Terrestrial" comparable to the light of the moon, and the "Telestial" comparable to the light of the stars.
For example:
1. "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14:2
2. "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory." 1 Corinthians 15: 40-41
Not only do we believe that in the eternities there will be three kingdoms of glory each with many mansions, but that there is a temporary world of spirits surrounding this planet, with two divisions. It is our belief that when our physical body dies we are judged partially and assigned while we await our resurrection to either the "paradise" portion of the spirit world, or to the "spirit prison" portion.
4. "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luke 23: 43
In our theology there will also be a place with no glory called "hell" or "perdition" where Satan and our spirit brothers and sisters who followed him in our premortal existence will be consigned at the culmination of events on this planet. Some, but probably not many people, those who worked really hard at evil during their mortal lives, will likely get to spend eternity in that location and with that company as well. The actual conditions there will be revealed only to those who deserve and get a one way ticket to hell.
Mormons believe you can baptize the dead (so how does this work, if they didn't do it of their own free will)
The early saints considered baptism to be such an essential earthly ordinance that they baptized their deceased loved ones by proxy, assured that God would accept such proxy ordinances as if they had been done first hand. The procedure of course does not involve exhuming corpses, just the faithful saints standing in the place of the deceased person and being baptised for him/her.
"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" 1 Corinthians 15: 29
Latter-day Saints believe that the apostolic sealing power, the power to bind in heaven what is bound on earth, has been restored. We believe that we have been commissioned to perform in holy temples essential earthly ordinances of salvation such as baptism, by proxy for those who did not have the opportunity to receive such ordinances during their lifetime.
We believe that God is loving, righteous, and just, that His Plan of Salvation for His children would not condemn anyone to an eternity in a lesser place simply because they never heard of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and its ordinances, as is the case with most people who have lived on this earth.
Thus, in our temples, faithful Saints perform baptisms with a living person standing in for a deceased person. In our belief, those deceased persons in the spirit world will then be taught the Gospel and will freely choose for themselves whether to accept or reject it. If they choose to reject, the proxy baptism is invalid and of no worth. If they accept, they are able to progress.
Persons who receive proxy ordinances in LDS Temples are not added to the membership roles of the Church. The Saints just make sure that the earthly ordinance of baptism has been taken care of for those who weren't baptized on earth.
The early saints considered baptism to be such an essential earthly ordinance that they baptized their deceased loved ones by proxy, assured that God would accept such proxy ordinances as if they had been done first hand. The procedure of course does not involve exhuming corpses, just the faithful saints standing in the place of the deceased person and being baptised for him/her.
"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" 1 Corinthians 15: 29
Latter-day Saints believe that the apostolic sealing power, the power to bind in heaven what is bound on earth, has been restored. We believe that we have been commissioned to perform in holy temples essential earthly ordinances of salvation such as baptism, by proxy for those who did not have the opportunity to receive such ordinances during their lifetime.
We believe that God is loving, righteous, and just, that His Plan of Salvation for His children would not condemn anyone to an eternity in a lesser place simply because they never heard of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and its ordinances, as is the case with most people who have lived on this earth.
Thus, in our temples, faithful Saints perform baptisms with a living person standing in for a deceased person. In our belief, those deceased persons in the spirit world will then be taught the Gospel and will freely choose for themselves whether to accept or reject it. If they choose to reject, the proxy baptism is invalid and of no worth. If they accept, they are able to progress.
Persons who receive proxy ordinances in LDS Temples are not added to the membership roles of the Church. The Saints just make sure that the earthly ordinance of baptism has been taken care of for those who weren't baptized on earth.
You're cherry picking the topics.
Still, I don't buy the "those deceased will choose for themselves" argument. It would take a complete moron to be standing before God and deny his presence. However, here on Earth it is slightly easier to do that, since it isn't here.
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Mormon Articles of Faith
